Reefmonkey

Las Alamedas' building was the real draw, the dark, "Old Mexico" spanish colonial feel in the front, the big glass windows overlooking the ravine in the back. They did have some good fish dishes, but overall, I don't think I'll bother finding out where the new Las Alamedas will be, but I sure will miss the old one.

Well, sounds like it was just a big misunderstanding, and some people in the gay community jumped to conclusions and started shouting "discrimination" prematurely.

It even sounds like Union Bar was trying to control crowds from a capacity standpoint, not a "maintaining rations" standpoint, but I am going to share my thoughts on bars that routinely have velvet ropes anyway. From my bar hopping days, I remember a few bars with the velvet rope up, not for fire code capacity reasons, but to make sure they let in the "right" people and also kept a high girl to guy ratio, but mainly I think they did it to have a long line of people waiting outside to make it look like the bar was really cool inside and worth going to. I always thought this kind of elitism was lame and poseuresque, like they are trying to be an NYC bar. This is Houston, we are more laid-back, that kind of pretention doesn't fly here. In the first few weeks a bar is open, a velvet rope may work to keep generating hype, but pretty fast people are going to tire of it and remember there are a lot of great bars in this city that actually welcome your business no matter who you are, and that you can get into immediately without waiting. I for one rarely went to those velvet-rope bars (and always brought a female friend with me so I wouldn't have to wait) because my Friday and Saturday night time has always been too valuable to me for me to spend it waiting in line so that a bouncer can use me to generate hype for his bar. I remember going to Prague back in its waning years, just on a lark, and happened to have two female friends with me, so the bouncer waved us past the 10 or so single guys waiting in line. We went in, looked around at a big, empty bar, had one drink, then left. On my way out I said to those guys waiting in line "Guys, don't waste your time here, it is dead inside." Several of the guys said "thanks" and left the line. I also think it's pretty dumb to stand out in the rain waiting to get into a club when there are hundreds of others who will welcome you with no wait.

Getting rid of the one-way streets would help the process along. Overall I think it's too soon to give up hope for midtown.

I would think that one-way streets would make an area MORE walkable, not less. It certainly makes it safer walking across a street when you only have to contend with traffic coming from one direction. Manhattan is all about walking, and it is also mostly one-way streets except for some of the main avenues.

Niche-

Your cotton argument is weak.

My facts are straight. Your effort to selectively misunderstand is noted, and typical, in my experience.

I believe that an EXTREMELY strong argument can be made for the Galveston destruction "model", at least as strong as any other posited by you. I recognize that myriad factors contributed. I join many who find 1900 "seminal" and more influential than your hypotheses. There are many of us; deal with it.

You didn't think of it first on this thread; so, as usual, it simply can't be. <------(the real bottom line, IMHO)

Houston was founded, in part, because of its proximity to GALVESTON BAY - regardless of how much the Allen Bros. "fudged" on the early navigatability

of Buffalo Bayou.

San Jacinto (right down the bayou from H-town) was obviously the battle known world-wide that brought Houston prominence. Thanks for uselessly pointing out that Harrisburg was burned. (you are so eager to exhibit knowledge-apparently almost any knowledge). So what? That helps your cotton thesis? It successfully tears down my statement about Houston and/or Harrisburg's growth in notoriety due to the stunning victory @ San Jac? No.

The term "region" as used by you is clearly whatever you want it to be - as I suspected above. How handy. For the record, few over the age of, say,

puberty fail to understand that 19th century travel was a grind with major obstacles and delays around every bend. Of course! It is not as hard as you imply to understand this. What you fail to grasp, IMO, is that everything from social mores to transportation logistics was attuned

to that reality. IOW, Texans (from 19th c. Harrisburg, Houston, near San Jac b'ground, Galveston, etc.) would likely be quite unimpressed with your emphasis on the distance from Houston to San Jac as some limiting factor! What a joke. Think about the whole (earlier) concept of "Manifest Destiny", the hardships these folks (and/or their ancestors) suffered to GET to SE Texas, not to mention immigrants dying left and right on 50 day journeys

across the Atlantic. Yeah, you bet, our ancestors were really daunted by that nightmarish HOU-SAN JAC-H'BURG-GALVESTON proximity you hang your hat on! Brother.

Your Austin/San Antonio paragraph was useless to the discussion IMO. Was it happy hour?

Please get your facts straight.

Guys, we're just having a friendly discussion, there are no right or wrong answers here. No need for anyone to be "right" or "wrong"; everyone's opinion of what was important to Houston's growth is their own opinion and completely valid. It's all good.

• Have you ever traveled intercity on a train?
  

Not so much in the US, but quite a bit overseas. Throughout Europe, and also regularly when I go to Japan.

• Have you ever traveled on a high-speed train?
  

Yes, the TGV in France, the Italian equivalent, and multiple trips on Shinkansen in Japan: Narita-Tokyo, Tokyo-Kyoto (twice), Tokyo-Sendai.

People in Texas who have not ridden on trains much or at all just don't know what they are missing:

There is no need to be at the station an hour before your train leaves - 10 minutes is more than enough time.

There is no annoying and delaying security queue.

Trains are rarely delayed, unlike airplanes, which are always getting delayed due to weather, previous flight delays, other planes still sitting in their gates, etc.

Unlike most airports, which, for noise and space considerations, have to be sited a ways for the urban center they serve, train stations are usually located IN the urban centers, reducing the amount of time you spend getting to and from the station vs airport, and also putting you right where you want to be.

Trains are MUCH more comfortable to travel in than airplanes. The seats aren't all crammed togetherlike they are on an airplane (except on the Shinkansen) and even if you do start to feel claustrophobic in your seat, it is always safe to get up and stretch your legs, and there is plenty of room to do so. Oh, man I hope there is a club or dining car if there is ever a Houston-Dallas train.

I think the current use of regional jets like the Embraer, which is becoming more and more popular as airlines don't want to spend more money on bigger jets, is a travesty. Not only are these little jets less efficient in terms of fuel used per passenger carried, they are also clogging the airways and taxiways of America, leading to more delays. The obvious solution, for the environment, for the economy, for peoples' pocketbooks, comfort, and convenience, is to return to rail for regional travel.

Definitely Dallas. Not only is there more business travel between Houston and Dallas, but also the Houston-Austin drive is pretty easy at 2 hours, with more than one decent route to take (either 290 or 71). Houston-Dallas is 4 hours in no traffic, there is only one feasible route, and it gets backed up all the time. Try driving the route either way on a Friday afternoon-evening and it is at least a 6 hour drive.

Why do you think the P&R has low usage? I don't use it, but work with many that do. Many times the buses are standing room only. I often hear them say "I hope I get a seat today". Also, judging from the queues at the pickup spots, I would say that alot of people use it.

I wouldn't assume that the buses that are currently allocated for park and ride being filled to capacity means that park and ride is being widely used. The number of people using park and ride, the number of people willing to use park and ride, is still a mere fraction of the number of people who use private cars to commute into the city along routes that are served by park and ride. Most people want to use their cars, like the freedom, don't want to ride the bus. I personally wish they felt differently, because it would be better for the environment and our dependence on foreign oil, but it is a cultural thing. Just like airlines reduce numbers of flights on certain routes if those flights are habitually not full, for cost reasons Metro is going to only run as many buses as market demands, and will probably err on the side of running too few buses to keep them full. that will create the appearance that P&R is being fully utilized, but in fact there are many, many more people who could be using P&R but don't want to.

I think neighborhood watch signs are about as effective of "beware of dog" signs put up by people who don't have dogs.

That said, there might be a sprinkling of people who think "oh, good, they have a neighborhood watch, that must make them a safe neighborhood", a larger minority, but still a minority, that will think "ew, a neighborhood watch sign, they must have a crime problem" and give the neighborhood a pass, an even larger minority that will see the NW sign and go investigate the crime in the area to see it it is a problem, but the majority of people will give a neighborhood watch sign about the same thought as they give the "designated bird sanctuary" sign.

If you are going to have a neighborhood watch, though, I think it will be just as effective without the sign. Neighbors noticing suspicious activity, asking a suspicious person who is casing a neighbors' house what they are doing, calling the cops, warning their neighbors, THAT'S what makes neighborhoods safe, not signs.

Is it really that hard to be more urban looking than midtown? Besides the Post property, most everything else in midtown, (the Perry townhomes, strip centers, CVS, etc), would look right at home in Ft. Bend County.

Amen. I moved into midtown January 2000 (Jefferson Midtown, then renamed Amli) and moved out in May 2004. It went from there being nothing there other than the Spec's to a few interesting bars and restaurants to suddenly an -ut-of-place-suburban-looking-strip-mall sprawl in that time. Very sad end to what had great potential.

Why do these damn developers or powers-that-be blatantly or arrogantly ignore the factor of non-vehicular commuters or pleasure pedestrians? It's not exactly safe to be a cyclist on these types of open roads either.

I don't know how true it is, I have heard it said that back in the 60s or even before, HUD and/or its predecessor required that any community or development that accepted HUD funding had to have sidewalks, or anyone buying a home using a government assisted housing loan had to buy in a neighborhood that had sidewalks. Developers who wanted to market subdivisions as "upscale" omitted sidewalks, because that would signify to people looking to buy into that neighborhood that no HUD money was used and/or no low income people using gov't assisted housing loans could buy into that neighborhood. A very visual cue that only the "right kind of people" lived in that neighborhood.

Like I said, though, I don't know how true this is, it may be an urban myth.

I've been a proponent of commuter rail along 59 south and I-10 (I was pretty mad that the old Missouri Pacific rail ROW was being used to expand I-10 instead of being used as a commuter rail line even when I was working on multiple groundwater and soil remediation projects to prepare for the expansion). I guess the time I have spent on commuter trains in Japan makes me partial to train travel. However, theniche's arguments really give me reason to rethink this position. Really not that many people use P&R now, paying for a commuter rail system would not be a good investment, might if it is lucky only attract a few more people than P&R, and is less flexible than P&R.

Now I am more focusing on the need for heavy passenger rail between Houston and Dallas. I really think it is time to supplant the use of regional air travel between places like that with rail travel. The skys are becoming more and more crowded with smaller aircraft like inefficient Embraer jets, causing more delays, plus air travel has become so much more of a hassle since 9-11. It's time for rail travel again.

Last time I drove by their sign said something to the effect of "Thanks for 28 years", and then definitely said "we will relocate".

It's a shame to see them relocate, as the architecture of the building and its location on the bayou there are some of the best reasons to go there.

I remeber as kid around 1968 driving down 1960 with my folks going to Spring Creek park by Tomball. I think the corner of 1960 and 249 was called wolf corner and I remember seeing dead wolf's hanging from the fence.

My parents moved to Cypresswood (Kuykendahl and Cypreswood Drive) in 1971, and they talked about the same thing you do - dead coyotes hanging from fences along certain stretches of FM 1960, which they said at that time was called Jackrabbit road.

Great discussion of the Klein and Spring areas (and surrounding areas) and the german immigrant farmers who founded them extending back into the 1820s.

http://www.raleightavern.org/PayneGermans.htm

I'm pretty confident Willowbrook opened in 1982, although I don't know the exact month. A 1981 aerial photo from historicaerials.com shows the mall, but it looks like it's under construction.

Yes, that sounds about right. I would have been 6 when Willowbrook opened, so would have been getting my little kid's shoes at Shoebox (thanks for reminding me of the name) at 4 and 5, and would still have been old enough to remember

I grew up at I-45 and W. Mt Houston, and that's about a 10-mile trip, but as the area wasn't nearly as developed, it wasn't that hard a drive. About a 15-20 minute ride up the then-FM 149 and Cutten Road. There were no lights... unlike today!

During the time I would have been going to the Shoebox, we lived in Cypresswood subdivision, at Kuykendahl and Cypresswood Drive, so we were a little closer than you, but not too much.

Since you lived in that area, do you remember the old Randall's in the Cypress Station area - on 1960 almost to I-45? Used to be on the south side of I-45 and then moved, their location became a furniture store. That, and the Eagle's on 1960 near Red Oak were the grocery stores my mom went to when I was really little. Speaking of Red Oak, I went to preschool at Apple Tree, right next to the Red Oak post office. I wonder if Apple Tree is still there?

Without reading the whole thread, I don't believe anyone has mentioned Texas Steak Ranch. It was in a big log cabin looking building one block south of Richmond and Fountainview behind what is now Barrys Pizza. Which back then was Baby Janes Saloon. Texas Steak Ranch had what was back then the best Chicken Fried Steak in Houston and was one of my first introductions to Buttermilk Salad dressing before it became popular.

joe

I believe that log cabin became Outback Pub (NOT affiliated with the Outback Steakhouse Chain). I used to go to Outback Pub a decent amount in '98-'99 when I lived in that area right after moving back to Houston after college (before I moved into town).

Dirtys had two locations one I believe where you say on Chimney Rock and the other in the Heights somewhere. It was a white wooden clapboard siding building with green trim. They were more famous for their burgers, but I think you are right they are both gone.

joe

The Heights location was at Durham just south of I-10, now a Cyclone Anaya's is on the site.

This is more early 90s, but a place I liked to shop as a high schooler in the Willowbrook Mall was J Riggins. I guess they went out of business.

I drove up to visit my parents in Champion Forest this weekend, and I guess all my visits to this website had me in the frame of mind to think about what the Willowbrook area was like before the mall was built.

I don't know exactly when Willowbrook Mall was built, but I seem to remember going out to that area as a little kid in the early 1980s before the mall was built.

As I remember it, most of that part of FM 1960 was just dense, undeveloped pine forest. I remember going to Champions Village 1, as there was a children's shoe store there where my mom liked to buy us shoes. I also remember there being a small two or three screen movie theater there, where I saw a Disney movie or two.

I also remember further east, at Champion Forest Drive and 1960 (Champions Village 3), there was the shopping center with the Randalls in it, but not too much else, and it felt like it was in the forest there. That Randall's used to have a great little cafe upstairs on a balcony overlooking the store. Later that Randall's became one of the first Flagship stores on the north side of town. The shopping center the Randall's was in used to have a Wilson's or a Best, something like that. These were two store chains that were very similar, and one of them later became Service Merchandise. They sold electronics, other housewares, records and tapes, watches and jewelry, and even some toys. Of course in the mid 1980s for a while there was a little Sakowitz store where the Sun and Ski Sports is now.

First decade of the 20th century - the first oil boom after Spindletop, and shortly thereafter digging of the ship channel. In a short time Houston went from just another small town to the largest city in Texas.

That will probably always be the most significant time period in Houston's history in terms of setting it the trajectory it is still on.

I'd add the construction of JSC as a significant event. That brought in a lot of tech jobs and fueled the development of the southeast areas.

Good one. Also really made Houston an international name. Led to our city's name being the first word spoken on the moon.

Reading threads and looking at old pictures on this site has gotten me thinking about watershed times in the evolution of Houston as a city, both culturally and physically, so I put my thoughts here for you to add to, disagree with, pick apart, etc. This is a partial list, really only covering the latter part of the 20th century, and some of them may be less significant with time.

Late 1950s - the first suburban boom, with the rise of large new neighborhoods of middle-class housing for commuters into town being built significantly outside the traditional pre-war boundaries of the city, in areas such as the Spring Branch-Memorial Area

Early 1970s - The oil boom during this time brought a massive influx of new residents to the city from other parts of the United States. I believe this is what really turned Texas from a culturally Texan city into a culturally nondescript American city (I know that sentence is going to be controversial). This period was also the rise of the remote suburb - former little outlying independent farming communities like the Klein area suddenly became Houston suburbs filled with brand-new subdivisions.

Mid 1980s -The oil bust really killed off "Old Houston", the distinct, homegrown Houston culture that had been heavily diluted during the previous decade's oil boom influx of residents. It was the end not just of the independent "wildcatter"-style oilman (most of whom were retirement age anyway) with "corporate oil" totally taking over, but also the demise of many old local Houston institutions - Sakowitz, for instance. The void would be filled not by new Houston merchants, but national chains.

Late 1990s - Though Houston recovered in the early 90s, it was the move to revitalize downtown, regentrify midtown, etc that was really significant in changing the face and feel of Houston. The Houston I talk about from my childhood, even my teenage years (I graduated from high school in 1994) is alien to my new friends who first moved to houston after college graduation in the late 90s.

After Texasvines made that post I tried to find evidence of Westchase mall but have not been able to. I looked at historical aerial photos and asked people who lived in the area at the time to no avail.

From what I can see in old aerial photos all the buildings on Westheimer between Walnut Bend and Wilcrest have been there since at least 1981 in their current configuration. In the photos from 1973 it's an empty field.

I guess he's talking about the current Target shopping center. It looks almost identical in 1981 aerial photos to today. It looks like it was a typical strip center... parking lot in front, semi trailers in back at loading docks.

Does anyone have anymore information on Westchase mall?

Yes, it is the current Target shopping center. Since it sounds like it was almost exactly like the Northoaks "mall" (though didn't have the movie theatre), it really wouldn't look any different from any other strip shopping center in an aerial view when it was in its "mall" configuration, and there was no need to change the external structure to convert it from the "mall" to a conventional strip center. Like Cosmic8 says, it's really not what one would think of as a typical mall. For the one in Northoaks, the "mall" part was really more like an enclosed foyer one could walk into, with entrances to the theater, target, and an arcade. Looking at the Walnut Bend shopping center now and remembering the Northoaks "Mall", I have no problem believing TexasVine's description of Westchase Mall as it was is accurate.

Dirty's, used to be located on Durham just south of I-10. Great chicken-fried steak

Strawberry Patch on Westheimer where Pappas Bros Steakhouse is now. Also great chicken fried steak, as well as the best hot blueberry muffins ever created, included free in your bread basket.

Harry's Kenya, a great upscale restaurant downtown.

The San Jacinto Inn - great seafood. Right by the Battleship Texas - NOT to be confused with the Monument Inn.

Tuffy's Seafood down on Galveston

The original Mariposa lunchroom in Neiman's at the Galleria - it used to be on the 1st floor right by the entrance to the mall, now that area is a cosmetics counter

The Sakowitz downtown lunchroom. The Sakowitz Post Oak lunchroom, for that matter. Great orange rolls in the bread basket

The original downtown James Coney Island

Las Brasas mexican restaurant on Kuykendahl just south of FM 1960

Dong Ting's very upscale chinese restaurant, in the same little area as Brennan's (and I'm looking forward to Brennan's reopening)

Cafe Artiste off Mandell and West Main

Hills Pier 19 in Galveston, now a (shudder) Joe's Crab Shack. Also Strand Street Brewery, now a Fuddruckers.

Zan's down in Galveston. I can't remember when this closed. Fortunately, I got a taste of Zan's cooking again in 2004 when he catered my wedding. Oh, yeah, Phoenix bakery down there did my wedding cakes, and now they are closed.

Cafe Miami, a cuban restaurant off Bissonnett at Hilcroft

Dolce and Freddo

Pino's on Westheimer and Hilcroft

Cafe Montrose

I remember it well. Great place, started as a joint venture between Brennan clan and the guy who owned the Empress on 1960 and had great food. But this location was cursed as difficult to see and turn into the parkin lot from this busy intersection

Guy from empress - was that Richard, or Scott Chen?

I was looking at TexasVines' post about the failure of Town and Country mall, and found this comment interesting:

at that same time there was also Westchase Mall that probably few people remember and probably fewer people today even know was a mall.......it was on Westheimer between Walnut Bend and Wilcrest and was an actual mall at one time with indoor walkways and was probably one of the few malls that was able to successfully convert to the big box format without much change.......basically they just closed up most of the mall area and allowed some of the bigger retailers to build back as far as they needed to.....so I spent a lot of time there at God Fathers Pizza, Arcade that I can't remember (want to say Aladdin's Castle but I don't think that was it it had a yellow sign and it moved from the back of the mall to the front and I want to say it had a name like "The ***?"

I actually work at the corner of Walnut Bend and Westheimer, and before they revamped the Target there, I thought the shopping center there reminded me of the NorthOaks "Mall" on FM 1960 and Steubner Airline that I used to go to as a little kid through high school.

NorthOaks was exactly how TexasVines describes Westchase Mall - anchored by a Target, and you could enter the interior walkway either through target or through a front door. It had an arcade and a 6 screen movie theater, that by the time I graduated in 1994 had long been converted into a dollar theatre. I think now the interior walkways have been closed off.

I imagine Westchase and Northoaks were built by the same developer.

A homeowner who knows a little can be harder to deal with than one who knows nothing

flipper

You don't have to worry about me, I suck at even putting together Ikea furniture, I certainly wouldn't try doing any major remodeling myself. I was just curious because I used to rent a house like I described in my OP and always thought that the landlord could have made better use of the garage by converting it into a living space than he did using it as a storage for worthless junk he obviously hadn't touched in years.

HCAD will not use valuations from forclosure sales. They don't feed them into their mass appraisial algorithms, and you can't use them as grounds for a protest.

I think what Scharpe St Guy is saying is the quantity of foreclosures out there right now, (along with the generally depressed economy) is driving down the price of even nondistressed, nonforeclosed houses. Sellers have to price their houses lower because of this, so buyers are buying at low prices, so they should want to get those prices recorded by HCAD, because then HCAD will start appraising their houses at those low low levels.

I remember reading an article in the San Antonio paper a while back about how realtors were not putting the sales price of high end properties into the MLS so the appraisial district would be in the dark about how to value the house. The article made mention of how this was a violation of the realtor's contractual agreements with the MLS or some other organization. Is this not the case in Houston?

It probably is. Probably, trying to have the contract rewritten so as to keep the sale price from being released will queer the deal, realtor will back out. I imagine it would be a breach of the seller's contract with the realtor that he signed upon listing with her for him to then delist the house and sell it as a private sale so as to be able to avoid MLS reporting sale price. I imagine the only way to get out of having sale price reported to HCAD is to find a house that hasn't been listed to begin with - a private sale.