Houston19514

There would have been two apartment "towers" (People keep calling them towers as if they were going to be 40-50 story structures, or even 20. I think there were intended to be more like 10-15 stories if that, hardly visible in downtown Houston.)

What is the problem with that? HP will clearly have numerous shops, restaurants and entertainment venues that will indeed help keep people downtown after 5 p.m. Is that really so hard to understand? The negative tenor of this board is really unbelievable and out of control. The construction of Houston Pavilions is HUGELY good news for downtown Houston anyway you look at it, ESPECIALLY when you consider that the very nearby One Park Place and Discovery Green are already under construction. (And keep in mind that we were told repeatedly by many of these same negative know-it-alls that Houston Pavilions would never happen, that Discover Green would never happen, that the One Park Place apartment tower would never happen...) At what point does one notice that one's constant negative predictions are not coming true and realize that a lot of great stuff is happening in Houston Texas?

When Denver Pavilions was built, downtown Denver was in a similar condition to that of downtown Houston today. Little residential, struggling retail... When it was built, Denver Pavilions was "more of a gamble" as well. It is just as easy to "guess" that the retailers signing up for Houston Pavilions are doing so because they want to be in downtown Houston (especially when they in fact are signing leases to do so) as it is to guess that Denver Pavilions tenants are there because they want to be in downtown Denver. And using "Real World" as a key to gauge whether a mixed-use retail and entertainment complex will be successful is, well, let's just say, an interesting approach to development. ;-)

And yet, most of the announced HP tenants have not ever been attracted by the Galleria... So how can you be so sure that nothing downtown could ever attract ESPNZone, Niketown, etc., just because they have not been attracted by the Galleria? Your entire post can be rather strongly disproven with two words Denver Pavilions

The Chron's coverage will come when the news release pops out of their fax machine.

Get hold of yourself. First, the "anonymous" post was not "anonymous". It was posted by a frequent contributor. Not sure what you even meant by that slap. Second. The poster disclosed their source. Their source was the development company's website, where they called it exactly what the poster said... "key tenants". Odd that nobody challenged it??? Hardly, it was quite easy to find it on the website and confirm it ourselves. The idea that it was the official list of Houston Pavilions tenants was nothing but speculation as was clear in the so-called "anonymous" post. Besides which, there was a fairly lengthy discussion of what, exactly, that list represented. Your final sentence is of course totally subjective, but I suspect that when you see Houston Pavilions completed, even you will realize how foolish such a statement sounds in retrospect. But even if it does not offer much more than the combination of Bayou Place and Houston Center. It sounds like pretty good progress to have one development that has in it what two previous developments combined offer, PLUS those other developments still exist downtown (and are growing/improving as well). It's a GREAT day for downtown Houston anyway you look at it.

Forever 21 has a concept called XXI, which, from what I gather from their website is larger and more "anchor-like" and seems to go in the more upscale malls (eg Memorial City, Northpark). Is it perhaps a XXI store, and not just a run-of-the-mill Forever 21?

After looking over that list more closely and comparing it to the current tenant list at Denver Pavilions, I think it is pretty clearly a combo list of tenants who are currently in the Denver Pavilions and tenants who have signed leased for Houston Pavilions. Some tenants are in both categories. Perhaps others to be announced are on the list and are currently in Denver Pavilions. But I would not expect all of the businesses on that list to end up in Houston Pavilions. Personally, I would be very surprised, for example, if we see either Corner Bakery of Hard Rock Cafe in Houston Pavilions. But of course, one never knows (at least until tomorrow)... I would love for them to announce a new hotel as one of the anchors they are supposed to be announcing tomorrow...

I completely understand your desire to boycott. But I think an "informal" boycott is even more likely to end up with the unintended consequence of sending the wrong message than would a "formal" or announced boycott. Put yourself in the shoes of the business owner for a moment. You see rail being planned and then built and then operated outside your front door... your business is declining (presuming your boycott is effective). What are you going to blame it on? Instead of the possibility of converting a business owner into a supporter of rail, you will have succeeded in totally, absolutely confirming his worst fears and making him great fodder for every newspaper, television and radio reporter when the campaign for the next rail bond issue starts.

Also, beware of unintended consequences. Boycotts of business along the section of Richmond where rail is eventually built, to the extent they are effective, would almost certainly result in the "lesson learned" that construction of the rail line hurt their business, NOT that their opposition to rail hurt their business. While it may not matter for the University Line, it will not help in preparing the larger public for the next phase of rail construction.

You are too much fun. Let me make sure I am understanding you correctly. You have told us that your "initial post amounts only to an attempt to signal people on this forum as to the level of activity and interest in the downtown area" and you are also telling us that whether these land acquisitions were made 20 years ago or within the last year is irrelevant. So, in your mind, an acquisition of land 20 years ago would somehow indicate a current "level of activity and interest in the downtown area"??? ROFL Clearly, the acquisition of land 20 years ago tells us precisely nothing about the current level of activity and interest. Hence my initial inquiry, which remains unanswered. Now, can we get back to hearing stories from our Dallas friends about how to construct a 43-story building without disturbing the dirt beneath the building? ;-)

To keep things accurate, it should be noted that the money spent on the Red Line is being credited as matching funds for the construction of the new lines. Therefore, in the end, Metro has achieved the same result as if the Red Line had received federal funding.

Enough with the posturing... You know very well that NOBODY asked for "explicit project-level details." I, for example, merely asked for a little clarification so we knew if you were talking about recent transactions or something that occurred nearly 20 years ago. Your inability/refusal to provide that tiny clarification is telling.

Houston's media is finally catching up with HAIF: HBJ discovers news about HP Do you suppose the Chronicle will get the word one of these days? Or will they discover it when they see the groundbreaking on their local news Tuesday night? ;-)

Good point, and that was a surprising announcement as well. (But it's also fair to point out that the original Red Cat is at least 3-4 times further away from HP than is the original Corner Bakery.)

Yes indeed. Never said it was impossible. Just seems pretty unlikely to me. We shall see.

I kinda think it might be a combination of real, signed tenants, and a listing of retailers that represent the type of additional tenants they plan to have. For example, I'd be very surprised to see Corner Bakery either move, or open a second location that close to their location 2 blocks up Main Street.

You keep telling us that Dr. Marzio has made these comments on why Houston has "less interest in the fine arts". I wish you could provide a link. I have "Googled" and "Yahood" and "Ask.com'd" like crazy and cannot find anything of the sort. I did find a very interesting clip of an interview he did with Texas Monthly magazine in which he discussed at some length the great depth and diversity of the arts scene in Houston (hardly the words of someone who thinks there is a lack of interest in the fine arts) and went on to discuss why that is not widely-known outside of Houston. He said Houston in general needs to do a better job of getting the word out about how great a place it is, arts included, and that Houston has never done a good job of selling itself. His theory as to "why", is that Houston is a "wholesale" town, not a "retail" town, therefore Houston just doesn't have the experience and the skill-set or perhaps even the inclination to do a "retail" type sales job. Very interesting thoughts and I think quite true. Link to Marzio clips

Awesome. Thanks for the pic. Keem 'em coming. I love Josephine's. I hope it stays forever and doesn't change a bit. Downtown Houston could use more places like that.

ROFLMAO I asked a very simple question which you have still refused to even attempt to answer. If all you know is that some company has acquired a bunch of land around Toyota Center, then your initial post truly amounted to nothing, and only showed how little you truly know, since you apparently were unaware that one company has owned most of the subject land for a very long time. Did your super secret inside informant not even hint at whether these purchases were recent? If they weren't recent, your "inside" information could not be more worthless (or less "inside" as it has been published in the Chronicle; yes, even the clueless folks at the Chronicle know about it). (and by the way, it was quite clear that I did not expect you to go search the public records. I only mentioned the public records because you should be free to convey any supposedly inside information that is public record.) One more thing: You seem to be rather full of yourself to think I have "turned my sights on you" in order to try to chase you off. With respect, you aren't worth the effort. ;-)

But you haven't even told us what was on the public record. Did this company you speak of acquire these properties recently or not? Simple question. On the public record. If you actually have the slightest clue of what you are reporting about, you would know the answer. With respect, you are looking increasingly like a fraud.

Well, so far you have told us precisely nothing. Let me try again (and revealing this information should not blow anyone's so-called "cover" as it would all be public record): This company that you say "has bought up a lot of land on many different blocks around the Toyota Center area"... did this company buy up this land recently (meaning within the last five years)? If not, it means absolutely nothing, because, as I said, a company has owned most of the land near Toyota Center since long before Toyota Center was ever thought of.

I'm sure several developers are thinking about new towers right now. In fact, we know the people who bought Allen Center are thinking about one; they have said so. All it takes to get construction started is the signing of a large anchor tenant. I would expect we'll start seeing actual proposals and renderings later this year (presuming the downtown market keeps tightening).

Meaning what?

Sure is. At least in the renderings.