Houston19514

I'm confused, I thought I was posting my comments with the proper understanding of the inital question.

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Now I'M confused too ;-) The quoted post was not directed at you, Gary. I don't think anyone has suggested you misunderstood the question or were getting off-track...

"These discussions would be helped immeasurably if everyone could use a dictionary to look up words before they start bloviating, or, in this case, just read the dictionary definition helpfully posted by kzseatlle. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are NOT entitled to our own definitions."

"will you people PLEASE read the definition of the word "cosmopolitan"? If each person on the board goes on posting using their own personal (and, I might add, incorrect) defintion, we'll have a proverbial tower of babel, and a huge waste of time."  (quotes, houston19514)

by chance are you now satisfied that "us people" are worthy of this thread?

debmartin

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If by "us people," you are referring to yourself, then, frankly, no. When you choose to make a post relevant to the discussion of "what makes a city cosmopolitan," that in some way relates to the actual meaning of the word "cosmopolitan," then you'll be "worthy of this thread" (Your words, not mine)

Will you people PLEASE read the definition of the word "cosmopolitan"? If each person on the board goes on posting using their own personal (and, I might add, incorrect) defintion, we'll have a proverbial tower of babel, and a huge waste of time.

There are lots of things that can be written into zoning laws.  For example, the size, scope, and design of business signs.  A place like Hilton Head Island, South Carolina prohibits signs that don't meet very strict specifications for uniformity and diminutiveness.  It's very much like the way the business signs are in Sugar Land, but much more restrictive.  The result is signs that inform you of where you are and where you are going.  Signs that are helpful, not jumping in your face.

Some cities have zoning laws that regulate restaurants differently.  I know one city that requires ground floor restaurants to have outdoor sidewalk cafes from April to October.  If you have a restaurant on the ground floor of a building with an outside opening, you are required to set up tables and chairs and umbrellas on between 40 and 60% of the sidewalk in front of your establishment.  Also, the seating area must be surrounded by wrought iron fences topped with planted and well maintained flowerboxes.  I once saw a bar get ticketed because its flowers were dying.  It's all in the zoning.

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All of those things can be, and often (I would suggest usually) are, done either without or separate and apart from zoning regulations. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Houston in fact has land-use regulations (eg., building setback, parking requirements, outdoor dining regulations etc etc) and signage regulations. (For one little example, I believe the Memorial Hermann Medical Plaza had to get a waiver of the building setback requirements in order to be allowed to build up to the sidewalk. This strikes me as a wrong-headed requirement in a dense urban zone such as the TMC; nevertheless the city does have such requirements)

I meant that if there was some pre-existing zoning laws on the books then maybe there would be some limit as to what has been built commercially along our feeders. Zoning is so much more than just claiming something residential, commercial, or industrial.

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Such as . . . ??

I think all that zoning determines is whether a given lot is going to be commercial or residential but I could be wrong. Do zoning laws include building code or is that something different?

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EXACTLY! Zoning laws do not include building codes. Houston has building codes and also has signage ordinances. (Unfortunately, it would have been nice if it had had sign ordinances earlier and I wouldn't mind seeing the on-premises sign ordinances beefed up a bit; nevertheless it does have such ordinances) Zoning laws also do not include parking requirements or building setback requirements, both of which Houston already has. Zoning laws also don't generally include density requirements or restrictions, something which Houston also already has, at least in some areas. (denser residential development is allowed inside the loop than outside)

Yeah, but Houston has both.  I don't think that anyone was trying to suggest that the two were related, but rather that the two, in combination with other things, are having a negative impact on the City.

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Well, somebody said "Oh, and for the feeders - I agree, we don't need them. But the sad truth is that they're already here. It all comes back to that nasty little six letter word: "zoning"."

I don't know how one can read that and not come to the conclusion that the author was suggesting the two were related.

I was referring to zoning in the sense of what is built along our feeders.

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so, you would prefer those areas on the feeders be zoned... residential perhaps?

I can't wait to hear everyone else's initial thoughts upon hearing the news of this gift to the MFAH.

It constantly amazes me how many things get blamed on the lack of zoning. Feeder roads and zoning are two totally different and unrelated matters. You can have feeder roads in cities with zoning. You can have unzoned cities without feeder roads.

Likewise, the matter of billboards has nothing whatever to do with zoning.

Zoning has nothing to do with whether American Airlines Arena or Toyota Center is "better" (which is a purely subjective matter of opinion. Because of its location alone (being that it is actually in downtown), I prefer Toyota Center. Neither exterior is particularly exciting to me, but I also prefer the Toyota Center exterior. I have not been inside either one.

Zoning has nothing to do with whether the Hobby Center or the Meyerson Center is "better". Again, a pretty subjective matter of opinion. And since they actually serve rather different purposes, it's somewhat hard to compare them.

It would be quite difficult for a developer to tear down a condominium building. I'm not saying it cannot or will not happen. But for a developer to do so, he would have to go in and buy each and every individual condominium unit in the complex, reaching separate purchase agreements with each owner. Does anyone know of any condominums anywhere that have ever been torn down and replaced bya new development?

The Hardy Tollroad is still being subsidized by the Sam Houston Tollway to the tune of about $10 million dollars a year, so although this may fit the description of an underutilized road, does it fit the description of a good road project if it continues to have to be subsidized? The Westpark is still too new to compare to anything. It would be funny if it ended up like the Hardy, thus disproving the old saw about if you build it, they will come. Sometimes, it just don't happen.

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Do you have a source for the statement that the Hardy is still subsidized by the Sam Houston? I've seen allegations on this board several times to the effect that the Hardy Toll Road is underutilized/a miserable failure/should never have been built, but of course, nobody has ever bothered to back up such statements with a source.

What does that have to do with Rod Paige?

^ Yeah, and Im not sure which of those is the worst.

Will it be held at the Toyota Center?  Because it only has a capacity of 18,300.  And the article said last time it was here it drew 44,735 fans.  If they don't hold it at the Toyota Center then where do you think it might be held?

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As stated in the second sentence of the posted article, The 55th annual All-Star Game will be played at the Toyota Center, home of the Houston Rockets on Feb. 19, 2006.

Dallas wins hands down in a "cosmo" contest with Houston.

Dallas is money and refinement. Houston is money and brashness. That's why Dallas got the NHL and we got the IHL (although with the strike, we may have gotten the better on that one).

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ROFLMAO You kinda stepped on your point there... You are "proving" Dallas has money and refinement vs. Houston's money and brashness, by pointing out that Dallas has a National HOCKEY League team???? That's too rich for words.

These discussions would be helped immeasurably if everyone could use a dictionary to look up words before they start bloviating, or, in this case, just read the dictionary definition helpfully posted by kzseatlle. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are NOT entitled to our own definitions.

Holy, crap! I owe you a 12-pack if/when we ever meet, 19514. That was great!!

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Thanks, man! If and when I manage to move back to Houston, you can bring my 12-pack over for a house-warming.

JGS, interesting explanation about the financing problems for mixed-use. I've heard that before about finance people living in silos.

My question: how do developers accomplish mixed-use projects in other cities? Do they manage to break down the silos over time? Couldn't Houston developers get some out-of-town finance people who don't live in silos? (But I suppose real estate financiers aren't comfortable financing projects outside their own city.)

I'm pretty sure it's a rehab. The name is taken from the old business establishment that occupied the building, I believe. Something like Herin Moving and Storage.

SSSSHHHH, don't let anyone at the Chronicle hear about this news IN THEIR OWN FREAKIN' BACKYARD!!

How is it that the "HCTRA does't have to answer to anyone?"

They are part of the Harris County government. Last I checked, Harris County commissioners and County Judge were all elected by the people of Harris County.

Maybe I've missed something newsworthy. . . Of what abuses of its power has HCTRA been guilty?

Interesting. A couple things to keep in mind...

(1) In most categories Texas did at least as well as, and often better than the nation as a whole.

(2) The ASCE (American Society of Civil Engineers) has a vested interested in more infrastructure spending, so one has to view their analysis with a grain of salt, so to speak.

The Buffalo Bayou Plan is a very long-term visionary plan, bits and pieces of which are being accomplished every year. I doubt if anyone really anticipates every bit of it to be accomplished, and certainly what is done is planned to be done over a period of at least 20 years. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Just because a particular project hasn't happened really has very little bearing on whether another by an unrelated developer is likely to happen. And, gosh, Semipro cited FOUR development projects that haven't happened in downtown. How many development projects HAVE happened downtown in the last 5-10 years?

Light rail line

MinuteMaid Park

Toyota Center

Hilton Americas

GRB expansion

Cotswold project

two new Harris County courthouses

5 Houston Center

New ChevronTexaco Tower

1000 Main

Calpine Center

Hobby Center

Magnolia Hotel

Sam Houston Hotel

Hotel Icon

Courtyard Hotel/Residence Inn

Club Quarters Hotel

Downtown Aquarium

Bayou Place I, first and second phases

Bayou Lofts

Keystone Lofts

Commerce Towers

I could go on, but I think you get the idea...

There seems to be a lot of confusion here, once again. Several years ago, Crescent Real Estate Equities, which owns Houston Center, including the Shops at Houston Center (formerly the Park Shops) talked about developing some more retail attached to or in conjunction with the Shops at Houston Center. They talked about an outdoor pavilion type of development. I presume that is what the Pavilion at Houston Center rendering are from. (Hence the name "Pavilion at Houston Center") This was to have gone on several of the blocks directly east of the Shops at Houston Center, and I think Crescent has since sold all or most of that land to other developers and/or to the City for the new park.

The Main at Polk proposal is a different proposal, by different developers for a different parcel (or parcels) of land and has been in the news much more recently. Hopefully, these guys who did the Denver Pavilion can pull a similar project off in Downtown Houston. When I was last in Dowtntown Denver, I could see a lot of similarity with downtown Houston, but Denver is probably at least five years ahead of Houston in retail development. But I don't see any reason why it should work in downtown Denver but not in downtown Houston. In any event, I don't believe we have any reason to think that Crescent Real Estate is involved in the Main at Polk project.

Crescent Real Estate Equities does NOT own Bayou Place. They never have owned Bayou Place. The city "owns" Bayou Place and it is developed and operated by the Cordish Companies.