Trae Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 It is on hold. Guess what I said in the beginning of the thread was true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallasboi Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 It is on hold. Guess what I said in the beginning of the thread was true. So...........Did u have an orgasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 So...........Did u have an orgasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 So...........Did u have an orgasm? I did as soon as I thought about your anguish while hearing the news... Seriously, I thought it was a cool tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 So...........Did u have an orgasm? You mad? This is a pretty nice tower, but the market is overbuilt up there in Dallas. No big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Say nice things about Dallas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwcre8tive Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) There's talk over on Dallas Metropolis that this building is "on hold".When I spoke to the office in November they said ground breaking is planned for May 2008. We'll have to wait and see. The latest press release on their website (dated 12/13/07) still mentions a start of 2008 with completion in 2010. Edited December 31, 2007 by njjeppson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 What an elegant design, perhaps a little too skinny to fit into the rest of the towers Downtown, but its still nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Dallas Police and Fire Pension System to fund Arts District condo project09:35 AM CDT on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News Developers who have been working for more a decade to build a soaring downtown Dallas condo tower say they are moving ahead with those plans.***The builders reached an agreement with the Dallas Police and Fire Pension System to fund the $200 million development, partner John Sughrue said Tuesday. Construction will start as soon as next week on what will be the largest private-sector real estate project started in Dallas in more than two years.http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/061610dnbusmuseumtower.18749d4.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarface Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Dallas's Museum Tower is under construction which makes very little economic sense. These are 1 million dollar condos and there isn't a market in downtown Dallas to support it. Victory Park wasn't enough beating for Dallas adding to the already high vacancy rates, and with the fairly recent vacancy of Elm Place, this will only add to an already existing problem. Why does Dallas insist on doing this to itself?http://www.realestatechannel.com/us-markets/commercial-real-estate-1/real-estate-news-dallas-real-estate-developers-museum-tower-dallas-office-space-john-sughrue-brook-partners-kevin-brass-international-property-journal-2725.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarface Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) OOPS, I apologize, i didn't realize this topic was already discussed. Please merge with existing topic. Edited June 24, 2010 by scarface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Dallas's Museum Tower is under construction which makes very little economic sense. These are 1 million dollar condos and there isn't a market in downtown Dallas to support it. Victory Park wasn't enough beating for Dallas adding to the already high vacancy rates, and with the fairly recent vacancy of Elm Place, this will only add to an already existing problem. Why does Dallas insist on doing this to itself?Well...look at where the money came from, figure the politics of real estate in Dallas--watch closely in the coming years--and do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 OOPS, I apologize, i didn't realize this topic was already discussed. Please merge with existing topic. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Dallas's Museum Tower is under construction which makes very little economic sense. These are 1 million dollar condos and there isn't a market in downtown Dallas to support it. Victory Park wasn't enough beating for Dallas adding to the already high vacancy rates, and with the fairly recent vacancy of Elm Place, this will only add to an already existing problem. Why does Dallas insist on doing this to itself?Excellent question. I've been trying to figure that one out too. For the sake of Dallas, I hope they don't end up with another Stonehenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwcre8tive Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 200 people show up for Museum Tower groundbreaking in Dallas Arts District11:48 AM CDT on Thursday, June 24, 2010By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning Newsstevebrown@dallasnews.comhttp://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/062510dnbusMuseum.d4ba980f.htmlBuilding groundbreakings are few and far between these days.So maybe that’s why more than 200 people turned out on a hot summer morning to watch construction kick off on the Museum Tower condo project in downtown’s Arts District.The 42-story building is the tallest building started in Dallas since work began on the Cityplace Tower in the mid-1980s....“This will be one of the great addresses in the U.S.” said Museum Tower partner Dan Boeckman.It’s also one of the few skyscrapers going up in the country because of the recession and credit crunch, which has cut off funds for most building.“This tower is one of the first in the U.S. to turn the corner in the economic slowdown,” said project architect Scott Johnson.Museum Tower is being paid for by the Dallas Police and Fire Pension System, which will own the building and plans to profit from the condo sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2H Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Why is Dallas doing this? I mean, really??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 35 of the 95 units at the Ritz-Carlton remain UNSOLD. The Ritz has a better brand name and amenities as well as a "safer" location closer to the uber wealthy Dallas hoods. They've been marketing the Ritz for FOUR YEARS now.The W Residences have been a flop. Numerous units have never sold. Most of the ones that did sell sold to investors who are now actively trying to lease the units.That pension fund is going to take a blood bath... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 35 of the 95 units at the Ritz-Carlton remain UNSOLD. The Ritz has a better brand name and amenities as well as a "safer" location closer to the uber wealthy Dallas hoods. They've been marketing the Ritz for FOUR YEARS now.The W Residences have been a flop. Numerous units have never sold. Most of the ones that did sell sold to investors who are now actively trying to lease the units.That pension fund is going to take a blood bath...Agreed. The question is: are they that ignorant or is there some nefarious "back story" here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarface Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 35 of the 95 units at the Ritz-Carlton remain UNSOLD. The Ritz has a better brand name and amenities as well as a "safer" location closer to the uber wealthy Dallas hoods. They've been marketing the Ritz for FOUR YEARS now.The W Residences have been a flop. Numerous units have never sold. Most of the ones that did sell sold to investors who are now actively trying to lease the units.That pension fund is going to take a blood bath...I agree. And on a related note, they're going through with the Trinity Suspension Bridges that are going to cost several millions dollars to rise over a man-made body of water. They say developers are snatching up property around it in high anticipation. All of this makes "ZERO" sense. I find it frustrating that Dallas wants to try this hard to "look" like a world class city when its clear its not ready yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 I agree. And on a related note, they're going through with the Trinity Suspension Bridges that are going to cost several millions dollars to rise over a man-made body of water. They say developers are snatching up property around it in high anticipation. All of this makes "ZERO" sense. I find it frustrating that Dallas wants to try this hard to "look" like a world class city when its clear its not ready yet.Not 'several millions'. More like $120 million. And that is only for the first one, which, coincidentally, does not even connect any roads to each other. Because the Trinity levees must be rebuilt, it could take another 6 years and $150 million if you believe Dallas City Council, or up to $2 Billion, if you believe opponents. Lately, opponents have been right more than Council.In this sense, Museum Tower IS similar to the Calatrava bridge(s). In Dallas' desparation to eat at the big kids' table, they have squandered hundreds of millions of dollars on a bridge that connects to nothing, and now are mortgaging the retirements of their police and firefighters on a condo tower that likely cannot be sold, all in the hope that they will be 'hip and cool'. I don't know what a bridge with no connecting streets, or an empty tower is, but 'hip and cool' are not the words that come to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallascaper Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Not 'several millions'. More like $120 million. And that is only for the first one, which, coincidentally, does not even connect any roads to each other. Because the Trinity levees must be rebuilt, it could take another 6 years and $150 million if you believe Dallas City Council, or up to $2 Billion, if you believe opponents. Lately, opponents have been right more than Council.In this sense, Museum Tower IS similar to the Calatrava bridge(s). In Dallas' desparation to eat at the big kids' table, they have squandered hundreds of millions of dollars on a bridge that connects to nothing, and now are mortgaging the retirements of their police and firefighters on a condo tower that likely cannot be sold, all in the hope that they will be 'hip and cool'. I don't know what a bridge with no connecting streets, or an empty tower is, but 'hip and cool' are not the words that come to mindNot to disagree, because Dallas clearly didn't do due diligence in planning the bridge, but my understanding is that the bridge approaches have been cleared by the Army Corps of Engineers. I'm not an engineer, so maybe I missed something and you are right.As for the tower, who cares? I'm never going to live there, I'm never going to pay for it, so I will just sit back and enjoy the show. And frankly, I don't care to know the balance sheet or funding sources for every tower, bridge or road built in Houston, so why are you guys in a tizzy over Dallas? Chill out - it's pretty tower, what more do you really need to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarface Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 so why are you guys in a tizzy over Dallas? Chill out - it's pretty tower, what more do you really need to know?I can't speak for everyone, only me. I just have a hard time understanding why Dallas is so hell bent on trying to BE a world class city, its constantly willing to shoot itself in the foot. Victory park hasn't even begun to recover and most of those stores are sitting vacant.Quit trying to make it seem like we're are losing sleep over this. This topic has already been started and is the perfect place to discuss. It's not a crime to state our observations on clear mistakes your city continues to make. Same goes for Miami or any other city that makes bonehead moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) As for the tower, who cares? I'm never going to live there, I'm never going to pay for it, so I will just sit back and enjoy the show.How wonderful for you. I wonder if DPD and DFD personnel feel similarly.You can attribute my own interest in the subject to careerism. I no longer have a job or any prospects in the development field, and in no small part because investors the world over did too many dumb projects like these. Edited June 28, 2010 by TheNiche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 This topic has already been started and is the perfect place to discuss. It's not a crime to state our observations on clear mistakes your city continues to make. Same goes for Miami or any other city that makes bonehead moves.Just to nitpick on a pet peeve of mine, the corporeal form of a city does not decide anything. It is not a self-aware entity. And any notion that a collective consciousness is responsible for the financing of high-profile projects in a particular city is outright bunk.When referring to a polity such as the City of Dallas (as may very well be appropriate in this particular case), capitalize the word 'City'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Not to disagree, because Dallas clearly didn't do due diligence in planning the bridge, but my understanding is that the bridge approaches have been cleared by the Army Corps of Engineers. I'm not an engineer, so maybe I missed something and you are right.As for the tower, who cares? I'm never going to live there, I'm never going to pay for it, so I will just sit back and enjoy the show. And frankly, I don't care to know the balance sheet or funding sources for every tower, bridge or road built in Houston, so why are you guys in a tizzy over Dallas? Chill out - it's pretty tower, what more do you really need to know?My knowledge comes from the articles I cited. It does appear that one was dated July 2009, but the second one is dated June 2010. That article discusses the fact that the entire levee system must be substantially rebuilt. You are correct that the Corps appears to have approved the piers going in with certain modifications.As for the tower, many of us on this forum enjoy debating the financial merits of projects as well as the architectural merits. While we will debate Houston projects too, nothing compares to Dallas, as they routinely begin projects that make no financial sense. And they've been doing it for decades, adding to the head scratching. Frankly, it is much more interesting than simply saying, 'that's a pretty building'. FWIW, we are not alone. I noticed this to be a common theme on Dallas Metropolis, too. The question might be asked, why are you only interested in the aesthetics? Why not discuss the financing schemes and what effect they have on other buildings and the city itself? Why be so superficial? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 I smell a lawsuit coming. This tower really makes no sense. Seriously, who is going to buy a condo, starting from $1 million, in Downtown Dallas? This isn't Manhattan. Not even the Trump Tower Chicago starts off that high. What are presales like for the Museum Tower? Why do they feel the need to rush this tower, considering all of the other high vacancies in other condo towers in the area? Dallas continues to amaze me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I smell a lawsuit coming. This tower really makes no sense. Seriously, who is going to buy a condo, starting from $1 million, in Downtown Dallas? This isn't Manhattan. Not even the Trump Tower Chicago starts off that high. What are presales like for the Museum Tower? Why do they feel the need to rush this tower, considering all of the other high vacancies in other condo towers in the area? Dallas continues to amaze me.The City of Dallas operates under the Field of Dreams principle:If you build it, ghosts will walk out of the cornfields and secretly be your father... or whatever. I never stayed awake through the entire movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2H Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Is the 63% leased space for the Ritz Carlton a good indicator that this tower will succeed? I'm not sure how this stuff works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 A clear case of civic pride gone mad.But that just about sums up Dallas' entire existence. So I guess there is nothing wrong with it. When you live in a place with no natural beauty, baking temperatures and all you were given by God is endless boring prairies to look at in every direction, you have to keep building interesting things to look at. Without billion dollar suspension bridges over ditches, McMansion style, instant arts districts with no soul, assuredly empty million dollar condos, and jumbo screen plazas and light rail cars with no people there would not be much to get exited about in Dallas. But who cares -we all know that money and practicality doesn't matter. All that matters is that all these useless things that Dallas builds will look great on internet photo websites. I don't blame Dallas enthusiast for being in favor these projects. If more people in Houston were willing to take extreme financial risk all for the sake of 'cool' every once in a while I wouldn't be complaining. It sure looks like Dallas is taking this coolness thing to the extreme, tho. I guess inland cities have to work harder to do something to try and make up for not having ocean front property nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Note that this tower is still not actually under construction. The only thing that has actually happened is the "official ceremonial" groundbreaking. I have a sneaking suspicion this might be nothing more than another wacky marketing scheme by the Museum Tower folk who in the past produced such knee-slappers as "We're going to start construction as soon as the King Tut exhibit closes because we don't want to cause additional traffic congestion." Mark me down as - Not yet convinced that construction will actually happen any time soon (in part because it is hard to believe anyone would be that foolish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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