dbigtex56 Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 At one time there was such a thing as civic pride. Look at the courthouses, city halls, schools, libraries, even the jails built in the 19th and early 20th century. Some resemble palaces, with fine masonry, marble, ironwork, woodwork and stained glass.For some reason, that all changed sometime after World War II. Suddenly civic pride was replaced by government resentment. Anything built by the government that wasn't pig ugly was viewed as a waste of tax dollars ("What are they trying to do, build the Taj Mahal?"). Yes, we could probably build something attractive just as cheaply as something ugly, but people would complain. They want ugly. They expect it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largeTEXAS Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Other cities takes on civic design: NY Times Uncle Sam, Visionary Builder? By NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF Published: September 19, 2004 Exploring the tension between democratic values and a fear of instability: Richard Meier's federal building in Central Islip on Long Island. Mack Scogin Merrill Elam's courthouse in Austin, Tex., in the "Civic Spirit" show. IN an age when government buildings are viewed more as terrorist targets than emblems of democratic values, the federal government's "Excellence in Architecture" program may seem an anachronism. Created in 1994, less than two years into the Clinton presidency, the program sought to raise the abysmal standards of design set in the 1970's and 80's, when American architecture was at a low point and government projects were typically built by politically connected corporations. The program focused on what was then a novel idea: to seek out and hire the best talent. Organized by the General Services Administration, the agency that oversees government building projects, the program cut through some red tape and brought in teams of respected architects, planners and designers. "Civic Spirit: Changing the Course of Federal Design," on view through Nov. 10 at the Center for Architecture in Manhattan, traces the history of that ambitious 10-year undertaking. The exhibition suggests what can happen when a government bureaucracy operates with a modicum of aesthetic awareness. Of the 19 projects in the show, many are first-rate;some rank among the great examples of American civic architecture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 FYI: brises-soleil are horizontal elements which serve to shade the building. A local example would be the Exxon building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 That first pic reminds me of the Hilton Americas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 That courthouse in Austin looks absolutely soulless and inhumane. Seriously, they could use that exact picture for the cover of a Kafka novel. When did America start wanting to be like Europe? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanLandscape Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 That courthouse in Austin looks absolutely soulless and inhumane. Seriously, they could use that exact picture for the cover of a Kafka novel. When did America start wanting to be like Europe?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ugh. Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YakuzaIce Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Here are a couple of pics from about a month ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I'm no architect, but am I the only one who sees beauty in this building?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>No you are not. I was in town over the weekend, and the new building in my opinion looks fantastic. It puts a whole new face on downtown to the East, which had previously been neglected, and seems to tie in Minute Maid with all the other historic buildings. Plus the glass has a really classy tint, much better than in the renderings. It's not cutting edge, avant-garde architecture, but I honestly think it will do more for downtown than the last couple of skyscrapers we've built. In my opinion, this is the sleeper project of the year. Two thumbs up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstar Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 It looked pretty cool outside MM park during the division series and NLCS (on TV that is). At the end of the game during the player interviews the camera is turned towards it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoustoniaNYC Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Houston's insecurity with being young, raw, and unappreciated by it's metropolitan peers has gotten the better of itself, as least as the county is concerned. What the hell is that building supposed to be, a Las Vagas casino disguised as something else? Is that excuse for a dome actually functional as one, or is it just a fancy way to hide the mechanical systems and squander tax payer dollars while giving some fat and bloated good ol' boy judges and commisioners a faulty sense of accomplishment? The supposed "Space City" always suceeds when it embraces its' zeitgeist and looks ahead into the future. That abomination to our skyline is a just a pathetic attempt to manufacture a history that never existed. But hey, at least it's not a strip mall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoustoniaNYC Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 That courthouse in Austin looks absolutely soulless and inhumane. Seriously, they could use that exact picture for the cover of a Kafka novel. When did America start wanting to be like Europe? Ugh. Europe. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah. What do those yokels know about architecture and urban planning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUCAJUN Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 ithink the building looks good. you're from NYC. i love the place,but it could use a bottle of bleach and fixing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoustoniaNYC Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Why do you like the building? Do you like the way it's going to function as a municipal building? Do you like the planning and layout of the design? Do you like the way it relates to the plaza and surrounding buildings? What does it say about Harris County, the city of Houston and the it's people? I was born at the TMC. I was raised on the west side. I was sentenced to high school in Katy. NYC is great, it's the Capital of the World. They put much more pride and effort into their city than Houston ever has. Not to say Houston hasn't improved in leaps and bounds within the next decade. I've seen that transformation myself with my own eyes too you know. But we still have a long way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 i too am a little disappointed with the design of this piece of architecture. if you've seen the new breed of courthouses/judicial centers going up around the world, then you'll agree that houston missed the mark with both of these buildings. city governments around the world are building justice centers with CUTTING EDGE, SUSTAINABLE, USER FRIENDLY architecture. mayor brown and his administrations were amazed with every proposal that came their way, they failed to be appropriately "critical" in areas of design and planning. yes, they facilitated many things; however, i don't believe that the "world view" of these last two administrations was much greater than their own careers and legacy, and don't mention the stadiums or the cotswald project, or the main street project. those ideas were born out of the consensus of houston businesses, developers and architects. the brown administrations simply put their stamp of approval on projects already in the works to garner as much credit for themselves as they could. (mayor brown's legacy will be corruption, greed and red ink.)this brings me back to an older thread........houston needs an objective design review committee for all major projects within the city limits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h-townrep Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 i too am a little disappointed with the design of this piece of architecture. if you've seen the new breed of courthouses/judicial centers going up around the world, then you'll agree that houston missed the mark with both of these buildings. city governments around the world are building justice centers with CUTTING EDGE, SUSTAINABLE, USER FRIENDLY architecture. mayor brown and his administrations were amazed with every proposal that came their way, they failed to be appropriately "critical" in areas of design and planning. yes, they facilitated many things; however, i don't believe that the "world view" of these last two administrations was much greater than their own careers and legacy, and don't mention the stadiums or the cotswald project, or the main street project. those ideas were born out of the consensus of houston businesses, developers and architects. the brown administrations simply put their stamp of approval on projects already in the works to garner as much credit for themselves as they could. (mayor brown's legacy will be corruption, greed and red ink.)this brings me back to an older thread........houston needs an objective design review committee for all major projects within the city limits.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>You Kinda Hatin ain't cha.When Brown came, one of the 1st things he said was to bring people back to downtown, something he ushered in when he was in Atlanta. His other big thing was to get downtown more commuter and that rail would be a grand idea since he also help usher it in in Atlanta so what are you talking about. His biggest concern was to stop freeway flooding and that freeway conctruction would cause more, build better drainage.Corruption was already in Houston before he got there and while Brown was there, Houston made it's biggest strides in the World View and proposals for building were at an all time high since the Oil boom. Like most Mayors, they let their departments head make the decisions, that's how that is handled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 light rail was a component of the main street project, not mayor brown's idea. the downtown renaissance was in it's infancy before mayor brown was elected. houston was coming back economically AND had a rainy day fund (thank you bob lanier) which brown's administration obliterated and then some.it's a stretch to say i'm "hatin", disappointed yes, not hateful.the recent story of mayor brown's former chief of staff is just the tip of the iceburg i'm afraid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonsemipro Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Bob lanier's light rail plan had failed when he was the mayor for the city. When Lee Brown was the mayor for two terms, Lee Brown went to d.c. for funds for the light rail and they wouldn't give it to him, so he done it anyway, but with the help of Bob Lanier to help push the issue the light rail is here today. All the work you see downtown is from Lee Brown. The work at the airport is, Lee Brown. Lee Brown brung people back downtown cause of the expandsion of GRB Convention Center, and by adding a five star 1200 room Hilton Hotel, etc. If y'all say Lee Brown hasn't done nothing for the city, why he been elected twice to serve houston? This mayor we have today (Bill White) he's only out to fix lights. Wow, fixing lights must be a hard job as a mayor! Lee Brown brung in entertainment for the city. What entertainment Bill White brung in lately? His entertainment is fixing lights.Some of y'all talking bad about the new court house, that will be the largest in the nation after they get finish. It looks great to me, just another high rise in downtown. And yes, I see alot of hatin in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 houstonsemipro proves that getting in front of the camera and announcing other peoples ideas a la lee p. brown makes people believe that you did something great. lee brown obstructed the consensus of elected council members, hand-picked projects to toot his own horn, hand-picked contractors to boost his "support" and scoffed at common conventions of ethical behavior.believe what you will. ignorance is indeed bliss.all this aside, the buildings still are less than that that should represent houston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VelvetJ Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I have to say that the building is growing on me. I didn't like the design initially but it's turning out to look better than I expected.I also agree that Houston seem to have lost it's cutting edge spirit in a lot of things including building design. This is suppose to be Space City. Personally, I would have loved to have had Minute Maid Field, this new Criminal Justice Building, a lot of the new condo towers going up, some of the new projects in the Medical Center etc., with a more "forward" cutting edge look. It appears Atlanta has taken the "future" cutting edge title Houston used to have. Houston, shouldn't forget what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I am happy not having our funds wasted on a "cutting edge" courthouse for the dregs of society.These buildings look fine, and are really changing the skyline of this section of downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmancuso Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 from sunday: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Bob lanier's light rail plan had failed when he was the mayor for the city.Bob Lanier had no light rail plan. He ran for his first term against Whitmire and won on an anti-rail platform. Lanier then stacked the Metro board with anti-rail members who in turn increased the money diverted to the city of Houston for stret construction from Metro's budget, allowing Lanier to stop using city funds for street construction and use that money for more police. The rail plan at the time of Lanier's election wasn't light rail anyway; at that point an elevated monorail from downtown to Westchase was the leading candidate for a very nonspecific system that voters had approved several years before.I don't think you can say any single mayor is solely responsible for something like the light rail system. Yes, during his term as mayor, Lanier was very vocal in his anti-rail stance. He has since changed his opinion and last year publically supported the rail component of the Metro Solutions plan. Brown was pro-rail, and did bring in Shirley DeLibero to head Metro with the intent that she would get a rail system up and running. Likewise he put pro-rail members on the Metro board. But the idea of a high capacity transit system on Main St. had been in the works for years, if not a decade or more. Brown's influence is just one of several factors that led to the system getting built, but I don't think you can say it was the deciding factor.For all of his faults, yes Lee Brown accomplished some positive things in the city. However, some of what he's being given full credit for he only played a minor role in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoustoniaNYC Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I have to say that the building is growing on me. I didn't like the design initially but it's turning out to look better than I expected.I also agree that Houston seem to have lost it's cutting edge spirit in a lot of things including building design. This is suppose to be Space City. Personally, I would have loved to have had Minute Maid Field, this new Criminal Justice Building, a lot of the new condo towers going up, some of the new projects in the Medical Center etc., with a more "forward" cutting edge look. It appears Atlanta has taken the "future" cutting edge title Houston used to have. Houston, shouldn't forget what it is.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>It's not about "looking" cutting edge, it's about being honest, and maximizing contemporary materials, methods, and design to their fullest potential. An elegant, clever, or bold facade is one thing, but there's more to it. What is this building supposed to do and how do the architectonics of that building facilitate and/or accomplish this program? Ultimately, since the building has such a supposed high purpose in our society, then how does this building reflect upon that and therefore upon us? More than anything, this building isn't exceptional at all. It's quite banal, even with it's facade and tacky top. If we live in a representative democracy, a government for the people by the people (via elected surrogates), then this municipal building speaks of our government, and therefore us, as being as unexceptional as it is.I refuse to believe the city that built the Astrodome more than anything else as a monument to our ability to land a man of the moon as unexceptional, although there are many who believe it is. I'm not just talking about folks outside the metro area, but people who live and breath and make a living in this city without much less a damn or even contempt for their environment. It's called apathy, and it's a cronic disease this city has suffered through time and time again. This building is an exceptional example of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 i second that emotion! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I third it!If anything, it looks like a tall version of a suburban office building with a dome! yuck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I'm not sure how one could define "cutting edge" design. If nothing else, it should be LEED-certified. That being said, the design imo fails in several ways. The proportions seem wrong, making the whole building seem squat and boxy and giving the appearance that a too-small dome was an afterthought dropped off on the roof. Notice how in the original version there was a defined setback on the upper floors. This gives the structure more visual height and better integrates with the dome. It looks like the architects tried to compensate for the boxiness of the proportions by emphasizing vertical strips on the facades. The problem with that appproach is that the pediment seems to be perched upon toothpicks. It looks ungainly at best. Again, notice how in the original plan the verticality is balanced with prominent horizontal elements and the pediments relate to the setback portion, not the main facades, thereby minimizing the ungainliness. It looks like they started out making an effort to balance the whole composition and then just tossed it away. On a detailed basis, the windows seem way too short, emphasizing the squatness, and the fully glazed sections are just incongruent with the decorative detailing. If you want to include classical revival elements, I say great, but at least be consistent in the application. Here it just comes off as a strange mish-mash. Finally, as a matter of personal taste, the chocolate-brown stucco is just plain ugly. I've never been one to believe that just because someone nicknamed Houston "Space City" that we should therefore have futuristic architecture, but in general I wish there was a greater demand for better design here. This thing is mediocre at best, and it seems that in general most major buildings recently have likewise settled for being no more than competent (viz. Hobby Center and Beck Building). MMP is the exception, though, just a wonderful design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceCity Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 My understanding of the nuances of architecture are not as refined as you folks. It looks nice to me. I liked the first design better, but this design will be fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowbrow Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I agree with Subdude. I think the change in design is tragic. It has a ephemeral quality about it, like many of the structures in Las Vegas. Seeing the before and after, I would think that the budget got wacked.Mind you I don't hate it. Although the dome just looks silly to me, like a fez or something. I just would have much rather seen the previous design go up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtmbin Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Both new courthouse buildings are dreadful. Nice? For tens of millions of dollars, buildings that represent "justice" in Houston and Harris County should be better than just nice. They should be more than just warmed over office buildings. They are not really a disappointment because I expect nothing less than mediocrity from the county. These buildings were both huge wastes of tax dollars. The county could have simply leased or purchased an existing building downtown (the Enron building would have been just fine) and accomplished several things for the city, not the least would have been reducing the vacancy rate downtown.For the record, I hate these two buildings. The newest domed one is by far the most offensive because it trys so hard to fake significance. More tax dollars down the drain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstngoal Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I'm delighted to read the negative feelings about the County government and their design selections on this website... now, tell them how you feel!!!!!Harris County government needs to be brought into the 21st century. Take a look at the design of Harris County Tollroad facilities... no decorative touches, no landscaping, huge rusting columns (Sam Houston Tollroad ramps), and poorly designed signage. They make the new TxDOT facilities look positively enlightened (and they are not!).These buildings are a true reflection of poor leadership... and taste. Luckily, they don't hold a prominent position on our skyline (at least from the west), so I don't have to look at them much... and hopefully I won't ever have to visit them either, right??Harris County Commissioners Court is a bunch of yahoo, good ol' boys (except for Sylvia Garcia). As powerful as they are, its definitely time to implement term limits for these idiots... or, just go ahead and expect more crap like these buildings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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