2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[memebag]

Well, I guess you in particular might be "debating" that but most reasonable people understand that you simply cannot be governor and you cannot be running for VP without taking in what the media produces and knowing things about people in other places.

It doesn't matter what most reasonable people understand. We can all make claims about most reasonable people and their understandings, but there is no aptitude test for being elected governor or picked as a VP candidate. The only evidence we have to inform our opinion about her is what she says and does. So far she's said nothing that makes her sound like a credible VP candidate, and she's protected from witchcraft.

I'm not her defender.

Good, because that's not a good defense.

I just think that there is a regrettably large pseudo-leftist Republocrat contingent hellbent on distracting everyone from the real issues. "Har, har, she's dumb! We win!" Yeeeah, 'cause that worked SO WELL the last two elections. Believe me, if only it were that easy.

What is a "pseudo-leftist Republocrat"?

[KinkaidAlum]

Well, I guess you in particular might be "debating" that but most reasonable people understand that you simply cannot be governor and you cannot be running for VP without taking in what the media produces and knowing things about people in other places.

I'm not her defender. I just think that there is a regrettably large pseudo-leftist Republocrat contingent hellbent on distracting everyone from the real issues. "Har, har, she's dumb! We win!" Yeeeah, 'cause that worked SO WELL the last two elections. Believe me, if only it were that easy.

Having stupid as #2 in charge behind a 72 year old man with a terrible health record is a pretty damn big issue.

[RedScare]

This debacle will only help them. The Repubs have the high ground since they tried to fix the housing thing years ago. The Democrats like Barney Frank (literally in bed with Fannie Mae top brass) kowtowed to their hedge fund overlords (I love how Dem blogs will openly non-sarcastically refer to Wall St. titans as "Princes of Wall Street"...ugh) even going on the record to say that nothing was wrong.

The Democrats are no better than the Repubs. However the Repubs have set their own bar so low with GWB that almost anything they do comes up awesome. On the other hand it was the Dems election to lose and it's easy to look back and see how they helped put us in this mess.

Polls are suggesting that even with the GWB bar set so low, Republicans have managed to slide under it. Additionally, the polls suggest that the public was wholly unimpressed with McCain last week.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110782/US-Leade...rks-Crisis.aspx

So, no, this debacle does not appear to help them.

Here is an article with a whole slew of polls showing McCain hurt himself badly last week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26973271/

Edited October 2, 2008 by RedScare

[KinkaidAlum]

It's funny that the media keeps focusing on the "Russia is our neighbor" comment but they haven't seized on the obvious point.

Putin's head doesn't fly over Alaska to reach the U.S. The Russian capital is in Moscow. Moscow is in Europe. Flights from the US to Russia travel over the Atlantic Ocean. That's geography 101.

[infinite_jim]

Hedging their bets?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalde..._no_secret.html

/willy_nilly:phony_outrage

[RedScare]

It's funny that the media keeps focusing on the "Russia is our neighbor" comment but they haven't seized on the obvious point.

Putin's head doesn't fly over Alaska to reach the U.S. The Russian capital is in Moscow. Moscow is in Europe. Flights from the US to Russia travel over the Atlantic Ocean. That's geography 101.

I was concentrating on the even more obvious point: Palin has had no trade missions with Russia.

[houstonmacbro]

I've pretty much stayed out of this conversation, but I have to say this...

... in listening to Sarah Palin speak (interviews mainly with Katie Couric), it is apparent that she doesn't know what the heck she is even saying. She sounds like she is just picking out words, and catch phrases, and putting them together into sentences that lack coherence and/or meaning.

I come away shaking my head and wondering "What the heck did she just say?!?!"

To make matter worse, she doesn't exactly answer the questions. She just kinda babbles out a response.

[RedScare]

I've pretty much stayed out of this conversation, but I have to say this...

... in listening to Sarah Palin speak (interviews mainly with Katie Couric), it is apparent that she doesn't know what the heck she is even saying. She sounds like she is just picking out words, and catch phrases, and putting them together into sentences that lack coherence and/or meaning.

I come away shaking my head and wondering "What the heck did she just say?!?!"

To make matter worse, she doesn't exactly answer the questions. She just kinda babbles out a response.

That is known as filibustering, bro. Sarah Sixpack is not answering questions, she is filibustering.

Main Entry: 1fil

[Trae]

Obama: 338

McCain: 185

Ties: 15

http://electoral-vote.com/

[Mark F. Barnes]

It's funny that the media keeps focusing on the "Russia is our neighbor" comment but they haven't seized on the obvious point.

Putin's head doesn't fly over Alaska to reach the U.S. The Russian capital is in Moscow. Moscow is in Europe. Flights from the US to Russia travel over the Atlantic Ocean. That's geography 101.

Obviously you're not a pilot, nor do you fly much. A Flight from Moscow to Dulles for instance, if you chart the obvious generic flight plan you are not going to fly over the Atlantic, unless of course you love to buy fuel and need the extra hours. I myself prefer Jeppesen FliteStar because it interfaces well with my Rockwell/Collins Nav Gear. None the less when you plot a route from Moscow to Dulles will take you almost over the North Pole. You'll cross the Norwegian Sea, the Greenland Sea, The Baffin Straights, Quebec, Ottawa, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and into Dulles. Atlantic Ocean doesn't come into play. The Earth is still round.

Edited October 2, 2008 by Mark F. Barnes

[Mark F. Barnes]

What is the deal with all these Democrats landing under gunfire that doesn't exist? Are the trying to boost their combat experience by making up these scenarios of landing under gunfire, when it's just not true. First Hillary does it, when there was a camera there filming everything, no gunfire, no fleeing for your life. Now Biden and his seven trips into Afghanistan under fire, when in fact only one flight was shorten because of snow, but no gunfire on any of them? Strange. I mean people get tired of hearing McCain's combat and torture stories, not to lesson the magnitude of what he went through. But to make crap up to try and sensationalize something is a bit much. I mean come on.

[KinkaidAlum]

Obviously you're not a pilot, nor do you fly much. A Flight from Moscow to Dulles for instance, if you chart the obvious generic flight plan you are not going to fly over the Atlantic, unless of course you love to buy fuel and need the extra hours. I myself prefer Jeppesen FliteStar because it interfaces well with my Rockwell/Collins Nav Gear. None the less when you plot a route from Moscow to Dulles will take you almost over the North Pole. You'll cross the Norwegian Sea, the Greenland Sea, The Baffin Straights, Quebec, Ottawa, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and into Dulles. Atlantic Ocean doesn't come into play. The Earth is still round.

Give it a rest. I know you are smart enough to find ALASKA on the image you posted above. Please tell me where "Putin's head" would cross over Alaska's "airspace" as was claimed by Sarah Palin.

Oh, and by the way, smart guy, here's a link for you

http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/norwegiansea.htm

[Mark F. Barnes]

No I was just letting you know you don't fly over the Atlantic Ocean, never once said Putin's Head or any other part of his anatomy flew over Alaska, nor do I refute the fact that you said it. I just showed you the most probable route to fly from Sheremetyevo International Airport to Dulles in DC using one of the most frequently used flight plan software in the aviation world, and it shows you don't fly over the Atlantic, not even what is considered the North Atlantic for that route. So what should I give a rest to? Just making a point, sorry to insult your geographical expertise.

[N Judah]

It doesn't matter what most reasonable people understand. We can all make claims about most reasonable people and their understandings, but there is no aptitude test for being elected governor or picked as a VP candidate. The only evidence we have to inform our opinion about her is what she says and does. So far she's said nothing that makes her sound like a credible VP candidate, and she's protected from witchcraft.

It's actually important, because without a "reasonable person" bar, there is literally nothing that will sufficiently convince you that she is a "credible VP candidate."

For my part, I think experiencing media output is like tying your shoes, driving a car, or eating cereal. Anyone can do these things without thinking about it. Should we play "gotcha" with her on those questions, too? If she pauses or looks confused by the stupidity of the question, does that mean that she can't do them?

Good, because that's not a good defense.

Good! In other news, denigrating Palin doesn't actually help the Obama campaign...at least no more so than the "Bush looks like a chimp" electioneering brilliance that completely and utterly failed to win the last two elections.

[KinkaidAlum]

No I was just letting you know you don't fly over the Atlantic Ocean, never once said Putin's Head or any other part of his anatomy flew over Alaska, nor do I refute the fact that you said it. I just showed you the most probable route to fly from Sheremetyevo International Airport to Dulles in DC using one of the most frequently used flight plan software in the aviation world, and it shows you don't fly over the Atlantic, not even what is considered the North Atlantic for that route. So what should I give a rest to? Just making a point, sorry to insult your geographical expertise.

Your point is WRONG. That is why you should have given it a rest.

Your flight path shows the plane flying over the Atlantic Ocean at several points.

First, it shows it entering Canada along the Labrador Coast. You do realize that is the Atlantic, right?

Between Labrador and Greenland, you do know that that body of water is called the Labrador Sea, right? If you didn't realize that, did you also not realize that the Labrador Sea is considered an arm of the Atlantic Ocean?

Thirdly, it shows the flight path taking you along the Southern Coast of Greenland on over to Iceland. You do realize that is considered the Atlantic, right?

Finally, as you yourself typed, the flight path takes you over the Norwegian Sea. You do realize the Norwegian Sea is a PART OF the North Atlantic Ocean, don't you?

[memebag]

It's actually important, because without a "reasonable person" bar, there is literally nothing that will sufficiently convince you that she is a "credible VP candidate."

Sure there is. Intelligent answers to simple questions could convince me.

For my part, I think experiencing media output is like tying your shoes, driving a car, or eating cereal. Anyone can do these things without thinking about it. Should we play "gotcha" with her on those questions, too? If she pauses or looks confused by the stupidity of the question, does that mean that she can't do them?

She was asked which newspapers she reads. She didn't answer the question. All she had to do was say which newspapers she reads. I'm sure you can do that. I can do that. I don't read newspapers. I read Yahoo news, mostly AP and Reuters. I wasn't confused by that question, and I doubt you would be either.

[memebag]

McCain Pulling Out of Michigan

Politico is reporting that McCain is giving up on Michigan, and Electoral-Vote shows Texas as "weak" GOP.

[sarahiki]

McCain Pulling Out of Michigan

Politico is reporting that McCain is giving up on Michigan, and Electoral-Vote shows Texas as "weak" GOP.

This might be a simplisitic assessment, but I think if Obama showed up here and showed Houston and Galveston a little love, it would go a long way for him. Galveston and Bolivar have completely dropped from national media attention, despite the ongoing struggles of (former) residents. He could make real headway in Texas if he let folks know they weren't forgotten.

[DJ V Lawrence]

This might be a simplisitic assessment, but I think if Obama showed up here and showed Houston and Galveston a little love, it would go a long way for him. Galveston and Bolivar have completely dropped from national media attention, despite the ongoing struggles of (former) residents. He could make real headway in Texas if he let folks know they weren't forgotten.

I think it would go far for him getting votes in the Houston area, but I don't think it would make much of an impact on San Antonio, Dallas, etc. unless he were to physically go there as well. Texas cities seem to have a disconnect between each other when it comes to politics IMO.

[ricco67]

I'm looking forward to tonight's debate, my only question is how neutral will the moderator be. From what I have read, she seems to not be particularly fond of Palin and has written a book glorifying obama.

[HtownWxBoy]

I hate living in Texas and feeling like my vote (which will be for the "democrat") doesn't count b/c you know Texas will go "republican". I mean, I know my vote still counts, and I will DEFINITELY be voting, but sometimes I wish I was back in Pennsylvania where I grew up (HUGE battleground state)... then I would REALLY feel like my vote was important!

Just my opinion, but I think the whole electoral college thing is STUPID... I don't think it's right on any level that a candidate can get the majority of the votes and still lose the election (a.k.a. Bush / Gore 2000). It just amazes me that more people voted for Gore in 2000... meaning more people who voted wanted Gore to be President, and Bush still won... it's just wrong. It may have made sense in the 1800s but I just don't think it's relevant these days... I think they should do away w/ it... just my opinion.

[sevfiv]

I hope Ifill is even handed despite her forthcoming book (which has a chapter on Obama).

She said:

“I’ve got a pretty long track record covering politics and news, so I’m not particularly worried that one-day blog chatter is going to destroy my reputation,” Ifill told the Associated Press. “The proof is in the pudding. They can watch the debate tomorrow night and make their own decisions about whether or not I’ve done my job.”

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national...;position=rated

and lol

http://www.236.com/news/2008/10/01/vp_deba...ng_a_1_9245.php

[Mark F. Barnes]

Sure there is. Intelligent answers to simple questions could convince me.

She was asked which newspapers she reads. She didn't answer the question. All she had to do was say which newspapers she reads. I'm sure you can do that. I can do that. I don't read newspapers. I read Yahoo news, mostly AP and Reuters. I wasn't confused by that question, and I doubt you would be either.

I took it as she was deliberately refusing to say which media she read by name to avoid the media jumping up as it being some type of endorsement. She answered that she read all the normal magazines and papers, she just would to commit to any one certain one by name. I really don't see the relevance either way, but that's how I took. And what does the media do with that, they act like she doesn't know any Papers or Magazines by name. They want to spin what ever way they can to put her in a dim light. Listen, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that she is inexperienced. There's no doubt in anyone's mind that she is a far right leaner. Does that make here a bad person or a communist, or whatever? No it doesn't. She has her beliefs, she lives her beliefs, and I think it's refreshing she's not as full as BS as the average politician. Do I want here sitting in the Oval Office, I'd rather not, but she's not running for that office so I don't focus as hard on that point as all the doom and gloomers that already have McCain in the grave and harp on the "one heartbeat away from the Whitehouse" line. The President is surrounded by advisers, and make makes no decisions on their own. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no clue. Obama is inexperienced, as inexperienced as she is, and he IS running for the Oval office. Do I want him in the big chair, no I don't, but if he does get in their, he too will be surrounded by advisers. That the people that I am worried about. Obama won't be able to blow his nose without advice and a vote from both sides. But I judge who he's surrounded himself with now as advisers, that bothers me so much. The very people that orchestrated the very thing we are bailing out right now, are advising this man. I cannot for the life of me believe he hasn't separated himself from these people, (Johnson, Raines, Gurelich) and word is Gurelich gets the nod for AG if Obama is elected, that bothers me. Sure McCain has the Lobbyists of Fannie and Freddie on his side also. Lobbyist are used car salesmen. Whatever brand is paying them is the best on the market, they are hired guns to the highest bidder. But do these people who actually ran Fannie and Freddie in the ground need to be so close to the Oval Office? Lobbyist aren't much better but they didn't run anything into the ground, they just did what they were paid for, push through legislation that allowed these others to run it into the ground. There is not clear cut winner in this deal.

People liked Ron Paul, but he is a water walker, he's wants to save the world, but will never get it done. Romney, I actually liked him, he is a good business man, Huckabee, he gave you a warm fuzzy feeling, but sounded a little off his rocker at times. But I think Romney/Huckabee or Romney/Paul was a strong ticket. Romney/Thompson would have been okay. I just still get stuck on some things McCain pulled years back that still bother me. But I don't want to sit this one out either. It's just a tough call. If McCain would have picked Romney for VP, I'd feel better, or even Huckabee. But he didn't, but I am not going to vote for Obama just because this gal hasn't got any experience. "Her" inexperience is the least of my worries. I've got bigger fish to fry.

[west20th]

I hate living in Texas and feeling like my vote (which will be for the "democrat") doesn't count b/c you know Texas will go "republican". I mean, I know my vote still counts, and I will DEFINITELY be voting, but sometimes I wish I was back in Pennsylvania where I grew up (HUGE battleground state)... then I would REALLY feel like my vote was important!

Just my opinion, but I think the whole electoral college thing is STUPID... I don't think it's right on any level that a candidate can get the majority of the votes and still lose the election (a.k.a. Bush / Gore 2000). It just amazes me that more people voted for Gore in 2000... meaning more people who voted wanted Gore to be President, and Bush still won... it's just wrong. It may have made sense in the 1800s but I just don't think it's relevant these days... I think they should do away w/ it... just my opinion.

There are a lot of down ballot races that need your vote.

[sevfiv]

There's no doubt in anyone's mind that she is a far right leaner. Does that make here a bad person or a communist, or whatever? No it doesn't.

It's only bad if she tries to legislate her far right-leaning moral visions/beliefs...

[HtownWxBoy]

I hope Ifill is even handed despite her forthcoming book (which has a chapter on Obama).

I don't really watch the debates so I could be wrong, but don't these debate moderators just really ask the questions... I mean even if she is "for" Obama is there much she could do to make the debate more difficult for Palin?

[TJones]

This might be a simplisitic assessment, but I think if Obama showed up here and showed Houston and Galveston a little love, it would go a long way for him. Galveston and Bolivar have completely dropped from national media attention, despite the ongoing struggles of (former) residents. He could make real headway in Texas if he let folks know they weren't forgotten.

Just to be fair, do you think it would have the same effect for McCain, or would McCain just be "making a photo-op" in your opinion ?

[HtownWxBoy]

There are a lot of down ballot races that need your vote.

I know... like I said I will still definitely vote... I always do.

On a side note... according to electoral-vote.com... Texas is now "weak GOP"... not "strong GOP"!! Again, there is no doubt in my mind Texas will go GOP, just nice to see it's not the reddest of the red states.

Oo... and on yet another note... I always thought it was funny that Republicans are the "red" states while Democrats are the "blue" states... don't Republicans usually consider "Liberalism" a step closer to "Communism"... (RED!) than "Conservatism"... you would think Democrats would be the "red" states.

[west20th]

I know... like I said I will still definitely vote... I always do.

On a side note... according to electoral-vote.com... Texas is now "weak GOP"... not "strong GOP"!! Again, there is no doubt in my mind Texas will go GOP, just nice to see it's not the reddest of the red states.

Oo... and on yet another note... I always thought it was funny that Republicans are the "red" states while Democrats are the "blue" states... don't Republicans usually consider "Liberalism" a step closer to "Communism"... (RED!) than "Conservatism"... you would think Democrats would be the "red" states.

The "red" is for red ink.

[TJones]

The "red" is for red ink.

...and "blue" for Dems, because they are never happy and are always cryin about somethin'.