2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[pineda]

I'll take a true patriot, John McCain, for President of these United States over a Socialist, Barack Obama, any day!

Edited October 10, 2008 by pineda

[bachanon]

so, education is everything?

vladimir putin has a degree in law and a doctorate in economics.

benjamin franklin had NO formal education (honorary doctors of law at u of edinburgh)

theodore kaczynski (unabomber) had an undergrad degree from harvard and a phd in mathematics from university of michigan

just cuz you smart duden make u betta than the nex guy.

i might add, ol ben was too busy gettin laid to lead and none of the above are on the ticket for this election. i'm just sayin'........the ability to communicate is way overrated. hitler did a bang up job communicating ideas (and he didn't do well in school).

mccain - not so good

obama - major mistake

vote against obama!

[RedScare]

so, education is everything?

vladimir putin has a degree in law and a doctorate in economics.

benjamin franklin had NO formal education (honorary doctors of law at u of edinburgh)

theodore kaczynski (unabomber) had an undergrad degree from harvard and a phd in mathematics from university of michigan

just cuz you smart duden make u betta than the nex guy.

i might add, ol ben was too busy gettin laid to lead and none of the above are on the ticket for this election. i'm just sayin'........the ability to communicate is way overrated. hitler did a bang up job communicating ideas (and he didn't do well in school).

mccain - not so good

obama - major mistake

vote against obama!

I suppose this post was meant to convince me that the uneducated are somehow more fit to run the world's most complicated government during its most complicated economic period? Being smart does not make me better than the next guy, but it does make me smarter than the next guy. And, you use HITLER as your example that communicating is overrated? He nearly conquered all of Europe! With logic like this, it is no wonder that you'd prefer McCain over Obama.

BTW, Franklin lived in the US when it was a largely agrarian economy. Surely, you are not suggesting that today's world is the same as Ben's. Last time I checked, Dr. Putin was running circles around our current administration. And ol' Ted ran circles around the FBI and ATF for years, until his brother ended things. Intelligent people wreaking havoc on the ignorant, yet you prefer to have the ignorant lead you.

I'll take a degreed elitist, thank you very much.

[sifuwong]

so, education is everything?

vladimir putin has a degree in law and a doctorate in economics.

benjamin franklin had NO formal education (honorary doctors of law at u of edinburgh)

theodore kaczynski (unabomber) had an undergrad degree from harvard and a phd in mathematics from university of michigan

just cuz you smart duden make u betta than the nex guy.

i might add, ol ben was too busy gettin laid to lead and none of the above are on the ticket for this election. i'm just sayin'........the ability to communicate is way overrated. hitler did a bang up job communicating ideas (and he didn't do well in school).

mccain - not so good

obama - major mistake

vote against obama!

Education certainly is important to run this country, especially considering the economic situation. McCain just doesn't seem knowledgeable enough.

[RedScare]

I'll take a true patriot, John McCain, for President of these United States over a Socialist, Barack Obama, any day!

I take it you haven't been following the actions of your Republican administration the last few days, have you? Or watching the town hall debate on Tuesday. How would you describe a government plan to invest $300 Billion to buy up mortgages and renegotiate loans with the homeowners? How about the government using $700 Billion to buy stakes in AIG, banks and make loans to automakers? Would you call it socialism with a little 's', or Socialism with a big 'S'?

Personally, I'd call it SOCIALISM! with all caps and an exclamation point. If you are against socialism, you better find a new party (and perhaps a new economy), because your current party is ate up with it, to coin a phrase.

[sarahiki]

I'll take a true patriot, John McCain, for President of these United States over a Socialist, Barack Obama, any day!

Do you not see the logical problem in setting up "patriot" and "socialist" as opposites? Even if Obama were a Socialist, which he is not (and really, you are smart enough to know the facts on that, aren't you?), he could certainly be a patriotic Socialist. I know a few of those.

[CoolBuddy06]

I'll take a true patriot, John McCain, for President of these United States over a Socialist, Barack Obama, any day!

Don't mind what anybody says. Vote for whoever you like. Just make sure your reason for voting for them translates to good governance when they get into office.

[KinkaidAlum]

Pineda-

Are you serious? In the very week that the Republican Administration forced a Wall Street bailout down our throats...In the very week that we nationalized AIG for all intents and purposes...In the very week that the Feds dumped currency in the market likely causing future inflation...In the very week McCain laid down his plans for the government to buy mortgages (essentially private property)... and all you can come up with is Obama is a socialist?

LOL

[lockmat]

Pineda-

Are you serious? In the very week that the Republican Administration forced a Wall Street bailout down our throats...In the very week that we nationalized AIG for all intents and purposes...In the very week that the Feds dumped currency in the market likely causing future inflation...In the very week McCain laid down his plans for the government to buy mortgages (essentially private property)... and all you can come up with is Obama is a socialist?

LOL

Republicans certainly had their hand in the bailout, but check the record. Almost twice as many dems voted for it. It was them who pulled this bill through. Blaim it on the Democratic Congress and Bush, not so much the majority of Republicans.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

Edited October 10, 2008 by lockmat

[memebag]

Republicans certainly had their hand in the bailout, but check the record. Almost twice as many dems voted for it. It was them who pulled this bill through. Blaim it on the Democratic Congress and Bush, not so much the majority of Republicans.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

McCain voted for it. McCain supporters lose the "socialist" and "deregulation" cards.

[westguy]

We have a mixed capitalist-socialist economic system, and we have had it for decades.

Re: bailout.

The amount spent depends on which institutions take up the bailout offer. The restrictions on that money make it a tough pill for Wall Street to swallow. From what I've heard, the US taxpayer is a primary stockholder when it buys these distressed securities. That's a liability for these companies.

Edited October 10, 2008 by westguy

[RedScare]

We have a mixed capitalist-socialist economic system, and we have had it for decades.

Yes, it merely tilted much farther to the socialist side in the last 10 days.

[pineda]

I do not think that McCain or Obama will be able to single-handedly solve the economic crisis that we are facing now.

No one person can fix this global meltdown, but there are just STILL far too many unanswered questions surrounding Obama and his past friendships and associations and I would not want to entrust the highest position in our government to him or his friends and advisors, because I really don't think he or they have America's best interests at heart.

Although he soundly condemns the actions of his friends and advisors NOW, (such as Bill Ayers, Tony Rezko and Rev. Wright), associating with them in the first place calls into question his judgement and character and ability to lead our nation in the right direction. I do appreciate his gift when it comes to being a public speaker, but that's where it ends for me.

Do I think Bush and McCain are perfect? No way, but when it comes down to it, both have shown true patriotism and a love for America that cannot be denied, in my opinion. I think it's sad when people start to say that Socialism isn't that bad, and they start to think that perhaps the failed concepts of Socialism might be an acceptable plan for America.

As I have stated before, I'm sure I won't change anyone's minds with my comments about this upcoming election, and of course, I won't be swayed by any comments regarding my choice for President. As always, my hat's off to the Editor of HAIF for allowing us to use this board to exchange our ideas and opinions in an open and civil manner.

I'm voting for McCain & Palin, and I hope each of you exercises your right to vote also on November 4th.

[lockmat]

McCain voted for it. McCain supporters lose the "socialist" and "deregulation" cards.

True. McCain has much less socialistic tendencies than Obama. Again, the lesser of two evils.

[RedScare]

True. McCain has much less socialistic tendencies than Obama. Again, the lesser of two evils.

I'm curious, lockmat. What would you have done? Nothing? What do you think would be happening under YOUR plan?

[lockmat]

I'm curious, lockmat. What would you have done? Nothing? What do you think would be happening under YOUR plan?

I don't have a plan. On principle, nothing would have been better. I don't think it's right to take my money to pay for someone else's debt unless it's me personally giving them the money. I'm basing this off the fact that most everything the government touches they mess up.

How long did it take the economy to recover after the great depression and govt intervention? Maybe if we just let it fix itself this time it'd be over with much sooner.

But of course, at least the govt. can say they tried, b/c letting the market work itself out makes it look like you're not trying.

[westguy]

Let me add that, those conditions will only be used under Paulson's discretion. I don't have much confidence that he do much beyond helping his old firm out.

True. McCain has much less socialistic tendencies than Obama. Again, the lesser of two evils.

Have you been paying attention during every Republican administration since at least Reagan?

Edited October 10, 2008 by westguy

[RedScare]

I don't have a plan. On principle, nothing would have been better. I don't think it's right to take my money to pay for someone else's debt unless it's me personally giving them the money. I'm basing this off the fact that most everything the government touches they mess up.

How long did it take the economy to recover after the great depression and govt intervention? Maybe if we just let it fix itself this time it'd be over with much sooner.

But of course, at least the govt. can say they tried, b/c letting the market work itself out makes it look like you're not trying.

Doesn't sound like you know much about the Great Depression. The government did nothing for 4 years, before finally doing what the government is doing now. By then, the stock market had lost 86% of its value, unemployment was at 25%, and banks had failed by the thousands. Most assuredly, doing nothing would have been worse, but I won't waste my time explaining why. There are plenty of resources that can explain the theories behind what the government is doing much better than I.

[sarahiki]

I do not think that McCain or Obama will be able to single-handedly solve the economic crisis that we are facing now.

No one person can fix this global meltdown, but there are just STILL far too many unanswered questions surrounding Obama and his past friendships and associations and I would not want to entrust the highest position in our government to him or his friends and advisors, because I really don't think he or they have America's best interests at heart.

Although he soundly condemns the actions of his friends and advisors NOW, (such as Bill Ayers, Tony Rezko and Rev. Wright), associating with them in the first place calls into question his judgement and character and ability to lead our nation in the right direction. I do appreciate his gift when it comes to being a public speaker, but that's where it ends for me.

Do I think Bush and McCain are perfect? No way, but when it comes down to it, both have shown true patriotism and a love for America that cannot be denied, in my opinion. I think it's sad when people start to say that Socialism isn't that bad, and they start to think that perhaps the failed concepts of Socialism might be an acceptable plan for America.

As I have stated before, I'm sure I won't change anyone's minds with my comments about this upcoming election, and of course, I won't be swayed by any comments regarding my choice for President. As always, my hat's off to the Editor of HAIF for allowing us to use this board to exchange our ideas and opinions in an open and civil manner.

I'm voting for McCain & Palin, and I hope each of you exercises your right to vote also on November 4th.

How do you feel about public education? Is that a "failed concept of socialism?"

Let me be clear... I'm not advocating for Socialism, nor do I want to change your mind about who you're voting for. (Okay, I would like to, but I realize I can't!). But I find it strange how so many people are crying "Socialist!" about Obama. We accept so many examples of socialized institutions in this country without thinking, but still have this Cold War era notion of commies at the doorway, regarding other forms of government intervention. I think there's a lot of inconsistency, and that's what I'm trying to point out.

Edited October 10, 2008 by sarahiki

[barracuda]

Do I think Bush and McCain are perfect? No way, but when it comes down to it, both have shown true patriotism and a love for America that cannot be denied, in my opinion.

Ok, I have to ask, how do you define a true patriot? If it has anything to do with supporting the war veterans, McCain is way behind Obama.

http://iava.www.capwiz.com/bio/id/192&...C&chamber=S

http://iava.www.capwiz.com/bio/id/3181&amp...C&chamber=S

And here's some interesting reading on how patriotic Bush is towards our troops.

http://www.awolbush.com/

If Bush and McCain really love America so much, why don't they follow through and support the troops and veterans they put into harms way? Sure, they wrap themselves in the symbolism of America to sell themselves to the American public, but they certainly don't show much love in their policies and irresponsible wars.

[lockmat]

Doesn't sound like you know much about the Great Depression. The government did nothing for 4 years, before finally doing what the government is doing now. By then, the stock market had lost 86% of its value, unemployment was at 25%, and banks had failed by the thousands. Most assuredly, doing nothing would have been worse, but I won't waste my time explaining why. There are plenty of resources that can explain the theories behind what the government is doing much better than I.

This certainly didn't help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act

[RedScare]

I think it's sad when people start to say that Socialism isn't that bad, and they start to think that perhaps the failed concepts of Socialism might be an acceptable plan for America.

I don't blame you for not listening to me, but I didn't just start saying socialism isn't that bad. I have been telling people for YEARS how much I enjoy my socialist water and sewer, my socialist roads, my socialist education, both primary and secondary, my socialist police, fire and EMS services, my socialist garbage pickup, and most of all, Social Security and Medicare for my parents. I enjoy playing with my dog in my socialist parks, or letting her play in the surf at my socialist beaches. Socialism has made my life more pleasant...probably yours too, even if you refuse to acknowledge it.

But, no matter. No matter who you or I vote for, the next president will expand socialism in the United States, whether through the bailout that both candidates voted for last week, or the mortgage buyout that your candidate is advocating, or the improved access to healthcare that my candidate is proposing. The only difference will be that I am not afraid to admit it.

This certainly didn't help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act

Good job. You now know everything there is to know about the Great Depression.

[sevfiv]

Good lord - before you know it my commie credit union will be gone!

That's okay, because I or my children will have the joys of going to a McSchool and being insured by Brand X health care corporation. Oh, wait...

[lockmat]

Good job. You now know everything there is to know about the Great Depression.

No, I don't, but you could stop spinning and avoiding the fact that it happened and instead respond to how government did not help the situation with that.

[houstonmacbro]

Man, I never knew there were so many snobs on this board. The way some folks talk about public education and such, you'd think you were all born with a gold pacifier up your b*tts.

[sarahiki]

Man, I never knew there were so many snobs on this board. The way some folks talk about public education and such, you'd think you were all born with a gold pacifier up your b*tts.

I don't follow... why is it snobby to talk about public education? Isn't it just the opposite?

[houstonmacbro]

I don't follow... why is it snobby to talk about public education? Isn't it just the opposite?

Well, because it seems that folks deride public education for millions of people who cannot afford otherwise. It seems that many folks (those with money) look down at anyone with public education.

[WesternGulf]

This thread makes my head hurt. I still laugh at the folks that say they will vote for McCain because Barack does not have a military background. If that is not textbook backwoods conservatism, I do not know what is.

[houstonmacbro]

This thread makes my head hurt. I still laugh at the folks that say they will vote for McCain because Barack does not have a military background. If that is not textbook backwoods conservatism, I do not know what is.

They're the same ones that say Obama is an elitist (code for Uppity Black Man), but yet they look down their noses at public anything (schools, education, etc.).

[sarahiki]

Well, because it seems that folks deride public education for millions of people who cannot afford otherwise. It seems that many folks (those with money) look down at anyone with public education.

I can only speak for myself, but I certainly wasn't deriding public education. I was pointing out that it is, essentially, a socialist institution. We all pay for it, everyone is entitled to it. I never said it was bad. I didn't pick up on derision in anyone else's post, either, though I may have missed something.