2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[houstonmacbro]

I can only speak for myself, but I certainly wasn't deriding public education. I was pointing out that it is, essentially, a socialist institution. We all pay for it, everyone is entitled to it. I never said it was bad. I didn't pick up on derision in anyone else's post, either, though I may have missed something.

Maybe it was another thread. Sorry if I misquoted.

(BTW, I have been writing a really long paper due tomorrow AND trying to keep up with messages on here. I surely hope I haven't written some socialist wrant in my paper.

LOL)

[sarahiki]

Maybe it was another thread. Sorry if I misquoted.

(BTW, I have been writing a really long paper due tomorrow AND trying to keep up with messages on here. I surely hope I haven't written some socialist wrant in my paper.

LOL)

No prob. I'm a little prickly about being termed an elitist, that's all. I'm well-educated but poor, and I always feel like that offers me pretty good immunity from elitist labels.

[westguy]

This will be the first election to have voters who were born after the fall of the Berlin wall. That means all new voters are not going to respond to crotchety old rants against communism/socialism.

[KinkaidAlum]

Despite my screen name, I love me some public education.

My partner and I love hosting scrabble night. He's and LSU alum. I'm a UH alum. We regularly CRUSH our other couple friends. We especially enjoy beating the living tar out of Silvina and Josh; a power Dartmouth couple. They can't handle losing to Southern public grads and have some serious meltdowns. Good times.

Why is it that people always think bad things when it comes to different forms of socialism?

I am with Red. I tend to think of things like Discovery Green Park, Hermann Park, Lamar High School, Interstate 10, Social Security, NASA, the ship chanel, Hobby and Intercontinental Airports, Robertson Stadium, U of Houston, Texas Southern, the VA Health Center, etc... These are all things that would likely not exist if we were truly a 100% capitalist society.

[infinite_jim]

To oversimplify:

Are you going to vote for a "spoiled brat" or "a boy named sue"?

Edited October 13, 2008 by infinite_jim

[bachanon]

How do you feel about public education? Is that a "failed concept of socialism?"

Let me be clear... I'm not advocating for Socialism, nor do I want to change your mind about who you're voting for. (Okay, I would like to, but I realize I can't!). But I find it strange how so many people are crying "Socialist!" about Obama. We accept so many examples of socialized institutions in this country without thinking, but still have this Cold War era notion of commies at the doorway, regarding other forms of government intervention. I think there's a lot of inconsistency, and that's what I'm trying to point out.

yes, the public school system is a failure.

concerning socialism; sweden doesn't exactly suck. whether obama has a socialist agenda or not, i'm not comfortable with his world view. mccain is no brainiac, but i'd rather have his world view in the white house. especially with the congress that we have.

[PuroAztlan]

Boy, the McLame supporters in this thread are making themselves look dumber with every post.

Hang it up.

Obama has already won, McCain is a dead man walking.

[20thStDad]

Don't people in this thread get tired of banging their heads against the wall? You know who agrees with you and who doesn't, the arguments I have read go nowhere. Can we possibly start an "independent" thread to actually discuss issues and avoid people constantly and myopically defending their "team" at the cost of a good discussion? I doubt it. I wish I hadn't read any of the posts in this thread, it has soured my opinion of a lot of HAIFers. For that reason, I'm out of this thread for good now. My own fault for not keeping out from the beginning.

[barracuda]

yes, the public school system is a failure.

concerning socialism; sweden doesn't exactly suck. whether obama has a socialist agenda or not, i'm not comfortable with his world view. mccain is no brainiac, but i'd rather have his world view in the white house. especially with the congress that we have.

So I guess that makes me and the millions of others who went through the public education system failures too?

[CoolBuddy06]

yes, the public school system is a failure.

concerning socialism; sweden doesn't exactly suck. whether obama has a socialist agenda or not, i'm not comfortable with his world view. mccain is no brainiac, but i'd rather have his world view in the white house. especially with the congress that we have.

So what should we do? Make it better or scarp it?

[Mark F. Barnes]

So what should we do? Make it better or scarp it?

I don't know, how's that dyslexia class been working out for you?

Sorry I could resist......

[N Judah]

We've always subsidized industry. Now we're just more open about it to the point that it's obvious.

Don't people in this thread get tired of banging their heads against the wall? You know who agrees with you and who doesn't, the arguments I have read go nowhere. Can we possibly start an "independent" thread to actually discuss issues and avoid people constantly and myopically defending their "team" at the cost of a good discussion? I doubt it. I wish I hadn't read any of the posts in this thread, it has soured my opinion of a lot of HAIFers. For that reason, I'm out of this thread for good now. My own fault for not keeping out from the beginning.

I like that idea too.

Edited October 10, 2008 by N Judah

[RedScare]

Breaking news...

Sarah Palin abused her power as governor in firing head of State Troopers. It appears she is not quite the maverick politician she claims.

In other news, McCain and Palin have whipped their crowds into such a hate-filled frenzy that McCain is forced to defend Obama as a "decent man".

[sifuwong]

Breaking news...

Sarah Palin abused her power as governor in firing head of State Troopers. It appears she is not quite the maverick politician she claims.

In other news, McCain and Palin have whipped their crowds into such a hate-filled frenzy that McCain is forced to defend Obama as a "decent man".

Did you see that woman who called Obama an Arab? Unbelievable!

[bachanon]

So what should we do? Make it better or scarp it?

scrap it. check out this interview with camille paglia (not a conservative).

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1285/is_/ai_55084046

i didn't intend to redirect the conversation from the election.

let me reiterate:

mccain - not so good

obama - worse

it's going to be an ugly election year. there are no easy answers, no solid expectations.

[RedScare]

scrap it. check out this interview with camille paglia (not a conservative).

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1285/is_/ai_55084046

I stopped reading after 'Camille Paglia, film critic'.

Actually, that is not true. I stopped reading after, "Why do you think American suburban high schools have become such apocalyptic places?"

[KinkaidAlum]

Did you see that woman who called Obama an Arab? Unbelievable!

I didn't find it unbelievable at all. I actually thought it was predictable.

When you feed people with little information a bunch of bad information it will eventually catch up to you.

The Republicans have been running a deplorable campaign over the last week. It was reported that 100% of McCain/Palin ads running right now are negative attack ads. McCain and Palin have not so-subtly been calling Obama a terrorist or at least a terrorist sympathizer. Various people from sheriffs in Florida to the head of the Republican Party in Lehigh County, PA have been introducing Obama with his middle name. Obama has been called a liar. He's been called un-American. He's been called un-Patriotic. He's been called untrustworthy. He's been called someone who lies about foreign relationships. AND, the people calling him these things are people in positions of power that many people trust and respect.

If the tone of this campaign keeps heading in this direction, we are definitely heading towards some hate crimes. That is what happens in America when angry groups get riled up. We are now seeing things like "No Parking Here if You Support Obama" signs in North Carolina, scared old women in Minnesota believing that Obama is a terrorist because she has been led to believe it, and angry mobs yelling out "kill him!" "Treason!" and "Terrorist."

McCain should be ashamed of himself. I sorta give him credit for finally speaking up today but it's about 1 week to late. The damage has been done. People believe so much of the McCain/Palin garbage that they actually booed McCain today when he spoke up half-heartedly for Obama. Of course, the cybic in me also believes that McCain finally spoke up because most of the poll numbers seem to reflect that the attack ads are backfiring. Obama is widening his lead in most places despite the nasty turn of the campaign.

[musicman]

I don't know, how's that dyslexia class been working out for you?

Sorry I could resist......

lol it's not.

[CoolBuddy06]

scrap it. check out this interview with camille paglia (not a conservative).

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1285/is_/ai_55084046

i didn't intend to redirect the conversation from the election.

let me reiterate:

mccain - not so good

obama - worse

it's going to be an ugly election year. there are no easy answers, no solid expectations.

I stopped after reading four pages. Paglia's argument is against schools in general, which is so stupid. The subsequent pages has even worse premises. Are you the kind of man she described in pages 2-4? Have you ever felt like that in high school or at the workplace?

[barracuda]

I didn't find it unbelievable at all. I actually thought it was predictable.

When you feed people with little information a bunch of bad information it will eventually catch up to you.

The Republicans have been running a deplorable campaign over the last week. It was reported that 100% of McCain/Palin ads running right now are negative attack ads. McCain and Palin have not so-subtly been calling Obama a terrorist or at least a terrorist sympathizer. Various people from sheriffs in Florida to the head of the Republican Party in Lehigh County, PA have been introducing Obama with his middle name. Obama has been called a liar. He's been called un-American. He's been called un-Patriotic. He's been called untrustworthy. He's been called someone who lies about foreign relationships. AND, the people calling him these things are people in positions of power that many people trust and respect.

If the tone of this campaign keeps heading in this direction, we are definitely heading towards some hate crimes. That is what happens in America when angry groups get riled up. We are now seeing things like "No Parking Here if You Support Obama" signs in North Carolina, scared old women in Minnesota believing that Obama is a terrorist because she has been led to believe it, and angry mobs yelling out "kill him!" "Treason!" and "Terrorist."

McCain should be ashamed of himself. I sorta give him credit for finally speaking up today but it's about 1 week to late. The damage has been done. People believe so much of the McCain/Palin garbage that they actually booed McCain today when he spoke up half-heartedly for Obama. Of course, the cybic in me also believes that McCain finally spoke up because most of the poll numbers seem to reflect that the attack ads are backfiring. Obama is widening his lead in most places despite the nasty turn of the campaign.

Disturbing. Very disturbing. Political rallies are often intense, but usually in a positive sense and not a negative or hateful one. Some of these rallies look more like an angry lynching mob than a mainstream Presidential campaign rally. Something has stoked serious anger and hatred in these people, and they're directing that anger onto Obama based at least in part on the comments of the McCain campaign. He needs to keep pushing back against these comments, or else he legitimizes them and the lunatics that make them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/09/m...d_n_133240.html

[sifuwong]

Anyone think that if Obama becomes president, there will be quite a few assassination attempts on his life during his term?

[CoolBuddy06]

Anyone think that if Obama becomes president, there will be quite a few assassination attempts on his life during his term?

Of course.

[bachanon]

biden as president. great. can we start over.

[Subdude]

Anyone think that if Obama becomes president, there will be quite a few assassination attempts on his life during his term?

I hate to think of any president, regardless of party, being targeted by assassins, but unfortunately that may be the case. We have even had HAIF members make veiled threats about armed rebellion in the event of an Obama victory. America can do better than mob rule.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Assassination that eat and every person, whether you like Obama or not, needs to hope, pray, or whatever it is you chose to do, that nothing like this ever happens to our country ever again. Those of you not old enough to remember the day they shot Jack Kennedy in Dallas, need to just take my word for it, time stopped for a few days. It was the most strangest time I can remember in my lifetime. The Country nor the Presidency doesn't need to experience that ever again. It's a day I will never forget as long as I live.

Secondly if you think that riot broke out over Rodney King's ordeal, this would be of such magnitude it would be 1968 all over again like the days after the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Worse that that, today's youth are more violent that they were back then, guns are more prevalent on the streets. The world would not be a pretty place, especially the world we live in. I hate to even think of it. the entire month of April in 1968 wasn't pleasant. Every time you turned on the TV for days, this is what you saw in your living room. Those times were harsh realities, of how much things had to change. Every night you either had gruesome news reels out of Vietnam, or all the rioting going on stateside. It was a trying time for everyone. 1968 was filled with violence, First when Dr. King was killed and the riots broke out in many major cities, the first thing goes through your mind is the Watts riots of '65, then Bobby Kennedy was killed and more violence broke out, not to the magnitude of rioting, but still there were heated protesters on TV. Seems like around then Andy Warhol was shot, might have been just before Bobby Kennedy, and then the DNC in Chicago, that was an ugly scene.

We do not for any reason need to get back to that state ever again. I don't care how bad the economy gets, or who gets elected. But to think of another assassination on the President is just something I hate to even consider, though that possibility always remains. I can just pray I never have to witness anything like that ever again.

[westguy]

I hate to think of any president, regardless of party, being targeted by assassins, but unfortunately that may be the case. We have even had HAIF members make veiled threats about armed rebellion in the event of an Obama victory. America can do better than mob rule.

It was the same story under the Clintons. First, the predictions of doom, then the resentment when he ran circles around them, and it all ended with squabbling over petty things. The 90s was the decade of armed militia compounds, you know. The only domestic threat for Bush II has been a bag of pretzels.

[RedScare]

Well, we can add Republican hockey moms to the long list of people booed at Philadelphia sporting events...

Edited October 12, 2008 by RedScare

[memebag]

Well, we can add Republican hockey moms to the long list of people booed at Philadelphia sporting events...

I'm confused. I thought Joe Sixpack was lovin' Ms. Palin long time. Maybe the allure of the hockey mom wears off if you're married to one.

Edited October 12, 2008 by memebag

[Mark F. Barnes]

That's Joe Six-Pack, not Mario, or Tony, or Rocco. Different demographic.

[Rammer]

Well, we can add Republican hockey moms to the long list of people booed at Philadelphia sporting events...

Filthydelphia has always booed everybody...from Mike Schmidt to the Easter Bunny.