musicman Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 A regional commuter rail study unveiled today recommends starting with a "baseline" system of five lines, but none providing direct service to Sugar Land, The Woodlands, Kingwood or Bush and Hobby airports.Alan Clark, who heads transportation planning for the Houston-Galveston Area Council where the plan was presented, said conflict with heavy freight rail operations would prevent commuter rail to those destinations in the near future. The five recommended lines are: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Why Tomball? I know coming from the east side of 249, the only way to get there is 2920 and 1960, neither of which are good for traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Why Tomball? I know coming from the east side of 249, the only way to get there is 2920 and 1960, neither of which are good for traffic.A study I saw last week suggested that the Woodlands/Conroe corridor would be the 2nd or 3rd most cost effective route of 17 or so "spokes" coming out of downtown. I am surprised that it did not make the top 5, though I suspect it has to do with the fact that, with I-45 and the Hardy Toll Road, that corridor has more transportation options than the routes listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 It looks like this study is looking for "low hanging fruit". They propose adding commuter rail traffic to existing rail lines that aren't congested. The Woodlands and Sugar Land are higher up on the tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 It looks like this study is looking for "low hanging fruit". They propose adding commuter rail traffic to existing rail lines that aren't congested. The Woodlands and Sugar Land are higher up on the tree.I agree, but I think the Tomball route would be a boon to those that are "trapped" in the back of the woodlands. Tomball will continue to grow and I'm sure the HP center and Willowbrook mall doesn't help traffic matters very much and this would be a great way to bypass those. Texas 3 would be a great commuter route, but I have concerns about traffic along the rail line, though. I'm pretty "eh" on the other sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chenevert Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 If they make the 249 rail stop at HP, it would allow reverse commuters to utilize it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 They need a line out to Katy. I think it would have one of the, if not the highest ridership among all other lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CE_ugh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I agree, but I think the Tomball route would be a boon to those that are "trapped" in the back of the woodlands. Tomball will continue to grow and I'm sure the HP center and Willowbrook mall doesn't help traffic matters very much and this would be a great way to bypass those. Texas 3 would be a great commuter route, but I have concerns about traffic along the rail line, though. I'm pretty "eh" on the other sites.That UP probably run 2-3 trains a day tops down that line. There is grass growing in between the tracks, the speed limit is only 30 mph and while its a more direct connection between Houston and Galveston; both UP and BNSF use the old Santa Fe route much more. With track upgrades and minimal station facilities, you could run commuter trains practically overnight on the line with almost no disruption to traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieDidIt Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 They need a line out to Katy. I think it would have one of the, if not the highest ridership among all other lines.Right along the Westpark, hitting West Houtston, Royal Oaks, Katy, and all point Sugarland. Seems like it would be a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 It looks like this study is looking for "low hanging fruit". They propose adding commuter rail traffic to existing rail lines that aren't congested. The Woodlands and Sugar Land are higher up on the tree.Bingo. And the Westpark corridor probably isn't on there because it doesn't physically exist as a railroad track anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 So let me see if I have this right.Someone commuting from Cypress to Downtown would take the commuter rail to NW TC, Uptown Line to Westpark, University Line to Wheeler Station, then the Red Line to downtown. Uh-Huh. that's how the "i only ride rail folks" would do it (i won't mention any names), but most would hop on the P&R bus and go downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 that's how the "i only ride rail folks" would do it (i won't mention any names), but most would hop on the P&R bus and go downtown.Yeah, but that would be an improvement over the current service how????Right now, a Cypress resident could take the P&R all the way downtown with just a stop (not a transfer) at the NWTC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Yeah, but that would be an improvement over the current service how????Right now, a Cypress resident could take the P&R all the way downtown with just a stop (not a transfer) at the NWTC.The park and ride works great on 290, but needs some improvements like more buses, extended HOV lanes, and perhaps some direct lines that do not stop at the NW transit center. If adding cost effective rail lines could get them out of widening 290 for a few years after the Txdot accounting screw up, that could help as well. I am envisioning a future where people really don't want to use cars to commute every day, and all Houston's mega freeways are empty. 290 traffic is light on the weekends. SRO on every single bus from Cypress these days...It looks like the study is also targeting high growth areas anticipating future demand. Cypress is growing with Bridgeland, Fairfield, and Towne Lake. Tomball and the back of the Woodlands are growing quickly with the New Village in TW (Creekside Park??), not to mention Magnolia. Also, isn't most of the growth on the south side of the city out in Pearland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 The park and ride works great on 290, but needs some improvements like more buses, extended HOV lanes, and perhaps some direct lines that do not stop at the NW transit center.Those solutions are a heck of a lot cheaper than adding a duplicate service rail line. I'm all for putting rail out to Cypress, but shouldn't we get an improvement in service for the extra cost?If adding cost effective rail lines could get them out of widening 290 for a few years after the Txdot accounting screw up, that could help as well.The 290 widening IS on hold. Very little engineering work is happening on that project these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Those solutions are a heck of a lot cheaper than adding a duplicate service rail line. I'm all for putting rail out to Cypress, but shouldn't we get an improvement in service for the extra cost?The 290 widening IS on hold. Very little engineering word is happening on that project these days.I agree, the system as it is proposed in this report taking 3 different light rails that stop at red lights and wait in traffic like the red line, would be a nightmare. That is why I say spend the money to improve the park and ride, or build commuter rail to ape the current park and ride system, i.e. go directly to downtown with a stop at the transit center for those who need it to transfer to the uptown line. Out of a bus of 80 people on a normal day on the 217, probably 6-10 get off at the NW transit center to catch the uptown/greenway or the medical center bus.As crazy as it sounds for someone who lives in Cypress, I am glad the 290 widening is on hold, everyone use public transportation!!! Cars are soooo last century... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) So let me see if I have this right.Someone commuting from Cypress to Downtown would take the commuter rail to NW TC, Uptown Line to Westpark, University Line to Wheeler Station, then the Red Line to downtown. Uh-Huh. No. The commuter rail goes all the way to the Intermodal Station Downtown (near that Hardy Rail Yards site). It would go inside 610 and run in the Heights. Then they would take the Red Line into town. Where did you get that other stuff from? Edited June 11, 2008 by Trae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chenevert Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) So let me see if I have this right.Someone commuting from Cypress to Downtown would take the commuter rail to NW TC, Uptown Line to Westpark, University Line to Wheeler Station, then the Red Line to downtown. Uh-Huh. Dont forget that only 8% of the Houston workforce is located downtown. Currently, the P&R solution serves them well. What about the other (larger) percentage of workers that work in other locations such as Greenway plaza, Galleria, TMC, etc that will now have an option they do not have today. What about the reverse commuters who cannot use the P&R today, but could possibly use the commuter rail? Dont assume this is being designed to only serve one purpose. Edited June 11, 2008 by Mr. Chenevert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 No. The commuter rail goes all the way to the Intermodal Station Downtown (near that Hardy Rail Yards site). It would go inside 610 and run in the Heights. Then they would take the Red Line into town. Where did you get that other stuff from?I'm referring to the OP which listed:U.S. 290, with a passenger terminal and maintenance facility near Metro's Northwest Transit Center. This would connect to Metro's planned Uptown light rail line.I'm aware that this is not what METRO shows in their plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chenevert Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) No. The commuter rail goes all the way to the Intermodal Station Downtown (near that Hardy Rail Yards site). It would go inside 610 and run in the Heights. Then they would take the Red Line into town. Where did you get that other stuff from?From post #1 of this thread. Edited June 11, 2008 by Mr. Chenevert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) I'm referring to the OP which listed:I'm aware that this is not what METRO shows in their plans. Also doesn't say it won't go Downtown (like from METRO maps I have seen). It will just be a major transfer point. Dont forget that only 8% of the Houston workforce is located downtown. Currently, the P&R solution serves them well.What about the other (larger) percentage of workers that work in other locations such as Greenway plaza, Galleria, TMC, etc that will now have an option they do not have today. What about the reverse commuters who cannot use the P&R today, but could possibly use the commuter rail? Dont assume this is being designed to only serve one purpose. You can't serve everybody with a commuter rail line, but you can serve a lot of people. For those that work in Uptown, take the Uptown Line. For the TMC, you can always take the Red Line. Houston just seems behind so many other cities in the rail department like: Dallas, Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Diego, Miami, San Francisco, Atlanta, DC, Baltimore, NYC, Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Philly, St. Louis, and Denver. Look at what they have, and compare them to ours. Pathetic. Edited June 11, 2008 by Trae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Dont forget that only 8% of the Houston workforce is located downtown. Currently, the P&R solution serves them well.What about the other (larger) percentage of workers that work in other locations such as Greenway plaza, Galleria, TMC, etc that will now have an option they do not have today.Currently, P&R users can get off at the NW TC, which is where the OP proposed the commuter rail ending. What options would this give them that they do not have today? Keep in mind I'm not referring to the light rail lines, just this commuter line.What about the reverse commuters who cannot use the P&R today, but could possibly use the commuter rail?I may be reading the bus schedule wrong, but it appears that "reverse commute" P&R service is available, just not in the HOV lane, and it appears limited to "express" service without the NW TC stops. So you may be right that rail would add some additional service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 What about the reverse commuters who cannot use the P&R today, but could possibly use the commuter rail?Why can't reverse commuters use P&R? I used to take the P&R busses from downtown to Clear Lake and Greenspoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) No. The commuter rail goes all the way to the Intermodal Station Downtown (near that Hardy Rail Yards site).trae forget intermodal. METRO has at this point cause there's no agreement to use UP's tracks.Yeah, but that would be an improvement over the current service how????Right now, a Cypress resident could take the P&R all the way downtown with just a stop (not a transfer) at the NWTC.concur but your transit advocates will say "it gives us another option" or "I will never be caught on a bus", etc.The park and ride works great on 290, but needs some improvements like more buses, extended HOV lanes, and perhaps some direct lines that do not stop at the NW transit center. If adding cost effective rail lines could get them out of widening 290 for a few years after the Txdot accounting screw up, that could help as well. I am envisioning a future where people really don't want to use cars to commute every day, and all Houston's mega freeways are empty. 290 traffic is light on the weekends. SRO on every single bus from Cypress these days...cnote....how often do you think a train will be running down this proposed commuter rail line? most likely less frequently than P&R service is now.That is why I say spend the money to improve the park and ride, or build commuter rail to ape the current park and ride system, i.e. go directly to downtown with a stop at the transit center for those who need it to transfer to the uptown line. You want cost effectiveness yet your proposal would sure require a big budget!!Out of a bus of 80 people on a normal day on the 217, probably 6-10 get off at the NW transit center to catch the uptown/greenway or the medical center bus.it's about serving the maximum amount of people at a minimal cost, not about making your ride 2 mins shorter.What about the reverse commuters who cannot use the P&R today, but could possibly use the commuter rail?commuter rail, as proposed, goes one way, how will this help reverse commuters?Houston just seems behind so many other cities in the rail department like: Dallas, Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Diego, Miami, San Francisco, Atlanta, DC, Baltimore, NYC, Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Philly, St. Louis, and Denver. Look at what they have, and compare them to ours. Pathetic.behind what? please be specific? sounds like some is plagiarizing a list of cities with light rail and has no actual knowledge. it's not like you haven't done that before..this week. Edited June 11, 2008 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 commuter rail, as proposed, goes one way, how will this help reverse commuters?Are they going to melt down the trains once they get into town? That seems very inefficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Are they going to melt down the trains once they get into town? That seems very inefficient.nah ~8 hrs later they go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chenevert Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Are they going to melt down the trains once they get into town? That seems very inefficient.You beat me to it! LOLWhy can't reverse commuters use P&R? I used to take the P&R busses from downtown to Clear Lake and Greenspoint.They dont drive on the HOV lanes, which kinda detracts from the whole point. Commuter rail would be just as fast coming or going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chenevert Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Currently, P&R users can get off at the NW TC, which is where the OP proposed the commuter rail ending. What options would this give them that they do not have today? Keep in mind I'm not referring to the light rail lines, just this commuter line.You are right. Both commuter rail and light rail need to be built to be effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 cnote....how often do you think a train will be running down this proposed commuter rail line? most likely less frequently than P&R service is now.You want cost effectiveness yet your proposal would sure require a big budget!!it's about serving the maximum amount of people at a minimal cost, not about making your ride 2 mins shorter.Why can't they run as often? Or less often but carry more people?Also, I gave the cost effective solution of improving P&R service, but if you didn't want to widen 290 (a multi billion dollar proposition), use some of that money to build a decent commuter rail line that could hook up to the light rail system at multiple points, Uptown line and Red line.The NW station takes longer than 2 minutes, but even so, there could be certain buses that skip it, and certain buses that stop. Even if it is only a couple buses in the morning and evening. Metro does similar setups on other 290 buses like the 214, some go to multiple P&R's some don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Why can't they run as often? Or less often but carry more people?the latter.Also, I gave the cost effective solution of improving P&R service, but if you didn't want to widen 290 (a multi billion dollar proposition), use some of that money to build a decent commuter rail line that could hook up to the light rail system at multiple points, Uptown line and Red line.when you say build a decent commuter rail line, are you talking about obtaining land too? how is that cost effective? The NW station takes longer than 2 minutes, but even so, there could be certain buses that skip it, and certain buses that stop. Even if it is only a couple buses in the morning and evening. Metro does similar setups on other 290 buses like the 214, some go to multiple P&R's some don't.there could yes. either way if you drove does the bus still beat your time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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