cla Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Touche. In the same spirit, can you actually prove that Houston needs the burbs?Well, since nearly 100% of the employees in my office live in the suburbs and we are always looking for more employees (who seem to live in the 'burbs), I could conclude that if the suburbs and the suburbanites housed within disappeared over night, it would be "Houston, we have a problem". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Ummmm....Uptown IS former farmland.Yes, and I am sure Upper Kirby was farm land too, your point noted, but not relevant.I was not in the house buying age when Uptown was farmland, probably was not even born. I reinvested into something that already existed.I am refering too, and what the article points out are these recent McMansion neighborhoods that built WAY out there, on former farmland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I reinvested into something that already existed.So did I. My house had two previous occupants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The point is, a lot of these places are just far away from what I would consider Houston proper, therefore forcing those that come to Houston proper (for whatever reason) to expend more resources (time, gas) to get there.and many of them have no need to come into houston. it surprises me how many clear lake people never come into town or even get on the freeway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cla Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Suburbs only existing becuase of 2 things.1. There's not enough room in the city for everyone to live2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeightsGuy Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Well, since nearly 100% of the employees in my office live in the suburbs and we are always looking for more employees (who seem to live in the 'burbs), I could conclude that if the suburbs and the suburbanites housed within disappeared over night, it would be "Houston, we have a problem".My question was really rhetorical, but, if you want to get really esoteric about it though, if Houston didn't have the cheap land, would it have built up like NY or would it have remained the small city it was in the early 20th century. So, of course if you erase Sugarland as it is now there would be a problem, but if Sugarland was never there would Houston have just built up instead of out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 and many of them have no need to come into houston. it surprises me how many clear lake people never come into town or even get on the freeway.I don't doubt that at all - but the point of the article was spending money on commuting and energy costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeightsGuy Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 and many of them have no need to come into houston. it surprises me how many clear lake people never come into town or even get on the freeway.7am traffic on the Gulf Freeway does support the argument that a lot of people from Clear Lake are coming to Houston daily too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 1. There's not enough room in the city for everyone to live2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy76 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) But what you fail to see is that they (the developer) are offering something to the home buyer, just something you don't want and can't appreciate. Edited June 25, 2008 by westguy76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieEric Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 But what you fail to see is that they (the developer) are offering something to the home buyer, just something you don't want and can't appreciate. You nailed it. I own inside the loop and I'm also happy with my townhouse, but I understand that what I have and where I live wouldn't be nearly as desirable to someone with a family who is concerned with good schools, security, and heck, some space. There simply aren't any options in Houston for many of those who opt for the suburbs. I grew up in the suburbs of Tulsa (of all places), and hope to someday provide a similar environment for my own family...when that day comes! This reminds me of the waterwall vs. River Oaks Theatre discussion for some reason j/k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeightsGuy Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 But what you fail to see is that they (the developer) are offering something to the home buyer, just something you don't want and can't appreciate.My original opinion on this thread sidestepped the idea of supply and demand to say that I believe that the government through billions of dollars of free roads, and cheap oil have "subsidized" Houston's march to the farthest reaches of the area, and that our current high gas prices could bring that crashing down. I apologize for getting into the inny vs outie argument cause I don't mean to denigrate where people choose to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 You nailed it. I own inside the loop and I'm also happy with my townhouse, but I understand that what I have and where I live wouldn't be nearly as desirable to someone with a family who is concerned with good schools, security, and heck, some space. There simply aren't any options in Houston for many of those who opt for the suburbs. I grew up in the suburbs of Tulsa (of all places), and hope to someday provide a similar environment for my own family...when that day comes!We have plently of existing 'burbs' as it is, plenty of them decaying and ready for people to reinvest in them, and I am sure we have plenty of them for sale to meet the needs of the Houstonians.It's crap developments like this are unnecessary. Do we really need more of this, we had had dozens of "Master Planned" already and I doubt they are at full capacity. Bridgeland's mottos is Find Balance, sure more money for gas and less time with family, sounds like a great balance to me.People just want to say they have a NEW home regardless how far away it is from the city. That is how this vicious cycle continues. More and more sprawl gets built further and further away. Houston is saturated enough with sprawl hoods. When are we going to learn our lesson and stop buying in the middle of nowhere.Those people deserve to pay $5 gas, heck they should be required to pay $10/gallon for lack of common sense and handing their money away to greedy developers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 You drive 9-12 miles? I drive 24. And 21 of it is on freeway, where, because of my flextime work arrangements, I can travel at max efficiency because I sit in very little congestion. I am routinely pulling 31-33 mpg (city and highway combined) with my EPA rated 26 mpg (highway only) sedan. Unless you're driving a Prius, you probably aren't getting that kind of gas mileage on city streets (if you are, bravo). So your fuel savings isn't as much as you think.Guess what else? My 2200 sqft "McMansion" is smaller than your 2500 sqft "model of efficiency." And unless you've done some major upgrades, your 20-plus year old pad isn't nearly as energy efficient in terms of appliances and insulation.Again, maybe you shouldn't generalize so much.Thank you."McMansion in the exurbs" has been made to include, in this thread, every home in suburbia, no matter what the size, no matter how close to the city. Pearland is closer to the med center/universities than the Memorial neighborhoods, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) 7am traffic on the Gulf Freeway does support the argument that a lot of people from Clear Lake are coming to Houston daily too....and quite a few people are making the argument that most work downtown when the actual number is about 15%. there are numerous work centers that exist outside the loop, even outside the beltway. for many, living in the burbs makes more sense with high energy prices. Edited June 25, 2008 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Those people deserve to pay $5 gas, heck they should be required to pay $10/gallon for lack of common sense and handing their money away to greedy developers.Man, I was going to drop this until the above statement. In fact I don't know why I'm writing this as I have no clue how to respond... Unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Sorry, their Town Center is just a glorified shopping mall of stores that was stratigically placed to look less like a strip mall.Residential, or an attempt at it, is still a year away and is really not much brag about. Town and County City Centre did a better job, but I still don't consider that anywhere near what a sustainable community could be. When a city/community can develope taller building, parks, government buildings, a variety of house, and be smart and actually have a grocery store in them (why do they always leave them out!) Then it can be useable. So short buildings don't count? Sugarland has the combination of the Town Square and to a lesser degree Lake Pointe across the street. The Woodlands does not need an explaination. Sugar Land's (notice the space) Town Square is just a glorified strip center. Ha , no I just think they are useless for the direction that Houston needs to go in. If they're useless, why are there so many of them? Surely they must have some use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Those people deserve to pay $5 gas, heck they should be required to pay $10/gallon for lack of common sense and handing their money away to greedy developers.Puma, you are too much.Your home exists ONLY because at some point in time someone handed their money away to greedy developers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Sugar Land's (notice the space) Town Square is just a glorified strip center.I disagree, it has the city hall, a plaza, plus density with office, residential, and hotel, a variety of retail (generic but still decent) plus a grocery store across the street.It is a huge effort compared to other city centers and deserves some praise for effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) Puma, you are too much.Your home exists ONLY because at some point in time someone handed their money away to greedy developers.Despite that, I am not continuing the cycle, nor were you as you mentioned, but to others that are just for the sake of buying "new" and supporting these developments are not doing themselves any favors.We don't really need more Telfair's, Sienna Plantation's, or Bridgland's. Developers keep building because they profit and don't care about sprawl and wasting arable land. Houston is saturated already with homes. It is not like San Francisco where there is a true housing shortage. Edited June 25, 2008 by Pumapayam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) I disagree, it has the city hall, a plaza, plus density with office, residential, and hotel, a variety of retail (generic but still decent) plus a grocery store across the street.It is a huge effort compared to other city centers and deserves some praise for effort.You're right. It's a a strip center that has consumed streets and a city hall. Let us praise the triumph of private space over public space. The only walking I've seen is from the free parking garage to a store and back. I assume the "grocery store across the street" you reference is the Whole Foods across 59? I dare you to walk over there and buy a bag of Oreos.Despite that, I am not continuing the cycle, nor were you as you mentioned, but to others that are just for the sake of buying "new" and supporting these developments are not doing themselves any favors.You can't opt out of the cycle that easily. You drive the price of closer housing up, which increases development farther out.We don't really need more Telfair's, Sienna Plantation's, or Bridgland's. Developers keep building because they profit and don't care about sprawl and wasting arable land. Houston is saturated already with homes. It is not like San Francisco where there is a true housing shortage.You seem to take "sprawl is bad" as an axiom. It isn't. Sprawl is an inevitable part of any successful city, going back to the Sumerians. Rome, Paris, London, Beijing and New York have all sprawled. Edited June 25, 2008 by memebag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 You seem to take "sprawl is bad" as an axiom. It isn't. Sprawl is an inevitable part of any successful city, going back to the Sumerians. Rome, Paris, London, Beijing and New York have all sprawled.With reference to the article, no.It is not an effiecient way to live, and is not a smart way for a city to expand. It stresses the city infrustructure and wastes land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 With reference to the article, no.It is not an effiecient way to live, and is not a smart way for a city to expand. It stresses the city infrustructure and wastes land.So, everyone else is dumb and always has been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 So, everyone else is dumb and always has been?No, Houstonians were near sighted with cheap gas, and settled for cheaper land and housing further away because of it.Housing is still cheaper further away, but gas has gotten more expensive, thus the real savings advantage is dwindling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Typical Marxist views...Who's Puma to say what someone can do with their land?Becuae that's basically what he's saying. Visions and plans for everyone. Has that EVER really worked in the history of mankind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 No, Houstonians were near sighted with cheap gas, and settled for cheaper land and housing further away because of it.So its just Houstonians? Not Romans or Sumerians or anyone else in the history of civilization who has created sprawl? Why are we so special? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Housing is still cheaper further away, but gas has gotten more expensive, thus the real savings advantage is dwindling.farther away from what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 So, everyone else is dumb and always has been? Apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 farther away from what?Farther away from The Fountain, silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 So its just Houstonians? Not Romans or Sumerians or anyone else in the history of civilization who has created sprawl? Why are we so special?I think the clear difference between the past developements and present developements is that the past was not done for profit nor was it predetermined for us.It was to establish new settlements on arable land near bodies of water and create a civilization, not master planned communities with no depth in them.farther away from what?Read the article again if you don't get what point A and point B are in context to was I am referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.