musicman Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Is it illuminated, or just painted?illuminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 illuminated.Then I don't like it. I'd be OK with it if it was painted on, or an architectural feature. But lighting it up just seems tacky to me. Earlier this year I was in Seoul and learned that there are a brazillion Christian churches in the city. And it seems like each one has a red neon cross at the top. At night the skyline is festooned with red neon crosses. It's really not to my taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I think I do indeed like the design. It gives downtown a more upscale and refreshing look in comparison to Lubbock, Laredo, or Odessa. Portland even. But even whilst I may admire this stunning work of art, I must admit that my skin burns every time I drive by that building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Then I don't like it. I'd be OK with it if it was painted on, or an architectural feature. Since they've made some minor mods to the building, it appears to be architectural, but lit in the evenings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolBuddy06 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm not generally a big fan of loud religion, but from a marketing perspective I don't really object to this. With the prominence of the Med Center, it's tough for other inner-loop hospitals to attract attention to themselves, and St. Joseph's has been struggling to survive over the years. Somehow I see this more as an attempt to draw attention to its differentiating characteristic (its Catholic affiliation) than to blast Houston with religious symbols. What has always seemed strange to me about St. Joseph's is that its professional building is across the Pierce Elevated from the hospital. It's not exactly a dense section of downtown today -- when it was built, were all the blocks north of I-45 occupied?That's the problem. The cross causes some confusion. St Joseph is no longer affiliated to the Catholic Church. It's been bought by Hospital Patners of America, a struggling hospital group that also owns River Oaks Hospital (formerly Twelve Oaks) and pockets of hospitals in Austin and one of the Carolinas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bach Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 That's the problem. The cross causes some confusion. St Joseph is no longer affiliated to the Catholic Church. It's been bought by Hospital Patners of America, a struggling hospital group that also owns River Oaks Hospital (formerly Twelve Oaks) and pockets of hospitals in Austin and one of the Carolinas.The Sisters sold hospital, yes, but the hospital/HPA doesn't even own that building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnmcbarnacle Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The Sisters sold hospital, yes, but the hospital/HPA doesn't even own that building.I feel the way I do about any other big adverising sign. That's all it is to me, the same as the old "Rice Hotel" sign I see out my window, or the old Gulf Oil sign, or any other big sign or billboard. Some I like, some I don't. Some has content that might offend me, some doesn't. I'm sure there are plenty of Baptists who hate the big Budweiser signs on the brewery and distributorships but there ought to be some distinction between disliking what the sign advertises and disliking the design of the sign. St. Joseph chose a cross to advertise themselves, or mark their affiliation, or attract a certain clientele. I understand that people get sensitive about religion, but I think lots of people are confusing the aesthetic of the object with the symbolism of the object. If they had installed a big Caduceus (The doctor emblem with the pin and wings and snakes) would you feel different? I think some of us would still think it is out of scale etc., but others of us who dislike the cross would be ok with it.I don't feel strongly about the addtion one way or another. It evokes a shoulder shrug when I go by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barracuda Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) St. Joseph chose a cross to advertise themselves, or mark their affiliation, or attract a certain clientele. I understand that people get sensitive about religion, but I think lots of people are confusing the aesthetic of the object with the symbolism of the object. If they had installed a big Caduceus (The doctor emblem with the pin and wings and snakes) would you feel different? I think some of us would still think it is out of scale etc., but others of us who dislike the cross would be ok with it.I don't feel strongly about the addtion one way or another. It evokes a shoulder shrug when I go by.It's the combination that's bothersome. Regardless of the symbol, it's very unappealing aesthetically. It just looks unprofessional. A small, tasteful and recognizable cross would not be offensive in my view. But at the current size, which I feel is absolutely ridiculous, the cross takes on new meaning and reeks of someone's attempt to shove their religion in your face. There is no reason for it other to annoy and distract people. Couldn't the money used to build, install, and power it be better spent taking care of patients? Edited July 31, 2009 by barracuda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 So, when the nuns sold the hospital did they sell the professional building as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0123 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 A new look is one thing, but this place still needs to work on removing the vagrants that sleep alongside it (and the church groups that overrun it on the weekends). My wife is a speech pathologist that has been interested in starting a clinic in Midtown, but she cannot be at a location where her clients would be afraid to drive up to the building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Matt Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) Whats the big deal? I drove by St. Joseph's on I-45 the other night & was immediately drawn to it. Its practically one of the only buildings in downtown that's lit up anymore besides the Continental building.I remember a similar distaste not too long ago from some Dallasites about One Arts Plaza's large square which is lit up the same way using bright white LED's. Edited August 6, 2009 by Metro Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Matt Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) Some people just need to get over their insecurities about religion in general. Its a free country, get over it already. If you want to burn a flag or a cross as protest you're free to do it, so if a cross on St. Joseph irks you that bad, go burn one in the lobby, just be prepared to show your face be on the 5 o'clock news. Edited August 6, 2009 by Metro Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Some people just need to get over their insecurities about religion in general. Its a free country, get over it already. If you want to burn a flag or a cross as protest you're free to do it, so if a cross on St. Joseph irks you that bad, go burn one in the lobby, just be prepared to show your face be on the 5 o'clock news.I don't see what the big deal either. My only wish is that they didn't quite make it so bright, lower the voltage a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyEvilTwin Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Some people just need to get over their insecurities about religion in general. Its a free country, get over it already. If you want to burn a flag or a cross as protest you're free to do it, so if a cross on St. Joseph irks you that bad, go burn one in the lobby, just be prepared to show your face be on the 5 o'clock news.Well that seems like a pretty weak analogy IMHO. I don't think anyone said that the big white cross should be illegal. Of course we're "free" to burn a flag, but any business owner who paints a big burning flag up the side of a 15-story building and light it up with red neon at night would be rather naive to think that wouldn't generate a little internet forum discussion... to say the least. (And I don't think it would be legal to go to the St. Joseph's lobby and burn a cross. They're legal, but not on other people's property.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 It's not a big deal at all - it just creeps out some folks.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20thStDad Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Does the big Jesus statue in Rio creep people out...any more than the big Sam Houston one on I-45? Whatever. No use letting yourself be affected by inanimate objects. Build stuff, build it big. I just like to see impressive feats of construction and creativity. This is neither, I drive by it most mornings and it's just a building. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0123 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Does the big Jesus statue in Rio creep people out...any more than the big Sam Houston one on I-45? Ha ha, my little brother (when he was teeny tiny) used to scream and cry when we drove past the Sam Houston statue because he thought it was going to eat him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I guess large statues of anything can creep people out...lolSome people may also think Sam Houston is creepy, and I bet even more people think religion is...just sayin.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 If a corporation were to propose putting its logo up on the side of a building like that along with backlighting, it wouldn't have been allowed a permit from the City of Houston for reasons stated in the Sign Code.Why does a religious symbol get a pass when a corporate logo or other advertisement does not? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
names Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Nice idea, bad execution. The cross is out of proportional scale w/r/t the height of the horizontal cross in relation to the height and width of the bldg. The horizontal cross is slightly too high and lends a visual effect of being top heavy. It's location of being adjacent to an elevated freeway does not deter this effect, but rather enhances it, as most often viewers are moving directly through space towards the bldg. The paint job on the exterior is mostly indiscriminate over it's coverage of diverse materials from metal details to the masonry facade. It looks unprofessional. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Matt Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 If a corporation were to propose putting its logo up on the side of a building like that along with backlighting, it wouldn't have been allowed a permit from the City of Houston for reasons stated in the Sign Code.Why does a religious symbol get a pass when a corporate logo or other advertisement does not?Do you know exactly whats stated in the Harris County sign code law? If so, enlighten us a bit, no pun intended...I've always heard & read its on buildings over a certain height, in which case St. Joseph's might not qualify only being an 18 story building. Houston is allowed to have X-rated billboards on the sides of its freeways, when a cross on a building gets peoples goat? I don't get it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Matt Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I don't see what the big deal either. My only wish is that they didn't quite make it so bright, lower the voltage a bit.Voltage has nothing to do with the brightness of a light source, its the wattage. LED's typically use only 24 volts vs. 15,000 for neon. Kudo's to St. Joseph's for "going green" on the exterior lighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I thought there would be more information on it, but here's one of the several approved permits:Project No: 09042254 Date: 2009/05/12 00:00:00 USE: O/S N3 ILUM 1FC 63X3X70 ST. JOSEPH PROF Owner/Occupant: *ST JOSEPH Job Address: 2000 CRAWFORD ST 77002 Valuation: $ 0 Permit Type: EG FCC Group: On Premise;New Sign;Wall;Internal Light Buyer: *SOUTHWEST/BLM Address: 1512 W 34TH ST 77018 Phone: (713) 699-4488 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Matt Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Well that seems like a pretty weak analogy IMHO. I don't think anyone said that the big white cross should be illegal. Of course we're "free" to burn a flag, but any business owner who paints a big burning flag up the side of a 15-story building and light it up with red neon at night would be rather naive to think that wouldn't generate a little internet forum discussion... to say the least. (And I don't think it would be legal to go to the St. Joseph's lobby and burn a cross. They're legal, but not on other people's property.) If someone hated this country that much to do that to their building they shouldn't even be here in the first place, especially after 9/11...now that's just a little scary. Yes, the lobby might be pushing it just a bit, I think you should go right now to St. Joseph's & walk down the street on city property burning a wooden cross. Go, go, go!!! I'll have my eyes glued to the TV for the 10 o' clock news I promise! Edited August 7, 2009 by Metro Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Matt Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) I thought there would be more information on it, but here's one of the several approved permits:Project No: 09042254 Date: 2009/05/12 00:00:00 USE: O/S N3 ILUM 1FC 63X3X70 ST. JOSEPH PROF Owner/Occupant: *ST JOSEPH Job Address: 2000 CRAWFORD ST 77002 Valuation: $ 0 Permit Type: EG FCC Group: On Premise;New Sign;Wall;Internal Light Buyer: *SOUTHWEST/BLM Address: 1512 W 34TH ST 77018 Phone: (713) 699-4488So there you have it folks! St. Joseph's sign is perfectly legit & up to code.Carry on... Edited August 7, 2009 by Metro Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 So there you have it folks! St. Joseph's sign is perfectly legit & up to code.Carry on...Yep, just the same as Spec's on Washington Avenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Matt Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Yep, just the same as Spec's on Washington Avenue.Gotta love this city's lack of zoning laws. If we had zoning, it wouldn't be Houston. Edited August 7, 2009 by Metro Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Do you know exactly whats stated in the Harris County sign code law? If so, enlighten us a bit, no pun intended...I've always heard & read its on buildings over a certain height, in which case St. Joseph's might not qualify only being an 18 story building. Houston is allowed to have X-rated billboards on the sides of its freeways, when a cross on a building gets peoples goat? I don't get it.This is a link to the Houston Sign Code. There is a ban on signs within the CBD taller than 42.5 feet. Furthermore, a cross would seem to qualify as an off-premise sign by my reading, and the construction of new off-premise signs are banned in the City of Houston. However, some jackass lawyer at the City had the foresight to specifically exclude political, religious, and ideological messages or symbols from the sign code so as to prevent an outright ban on architectural crosses much as there is on gigantic corporate logos (except for Continental Airlines'...see pages 52-54).There you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Gotta love this city's lack of zoning laws. If we had zoning, it wouldn't be Houston.Neither of these issues has the least bit to do with zoning or would necessarily be affected by zoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Voltage has nothing to do with the brightness of a light source, its the wattage. LED's typically use only 24 volts vs. 15,000 for neon. Kudo's to St. Joseph's for "going green" on the exterior lighting.Voltage, wattage, whatever.I just wished they'd dim it a bit because its BRIGHT when it gets dark. Its almost as bad as that signage at shepherd @ 59 until I guess there were enough complaints for them to change it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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