Washington DC tax on plastic bags began Jan 1

[trymahjong]

Front page of the Wall Street Journal today is interesting article on $.05 tax in Washington DC on any plastic bag used to sell food products-

-any food product including mints in tin cans in a book store that had NO other food for sale and edible body frosting at a different store that had no other food for sale--

the money raised by this tax are set aside to help clean up the Anacostia River--but after I thought of Houston's $103 million deficit that was pointed out last summer I'm thinking . . . . . . .

could this be an option to get COH budget out of the red?

[TheNiche]

Front page of the Wall Street Journal today is interesting article on $.05 tax in Washington DC on any plastic bag used to sell food products-

-any food product including mints in tin cans in a book store that had NO other food for sale and edible body frosting at a different store that had no other food for sale--

the money raised by this tax are set aside to help clean up the Anacostia River--but after I thought of Houston's $103 million deficit that was pointed out last summer I'm thinking . . . . . . .

could this be an option to get COH budget out of the red?

Probably not without changing state legislation. And even then...why tax something related specifically to food, especially staple food products? I'm a big fan of regressive taxation, but even I recognize a need for there to be exceptions.

Given current tax law, we can't raise our sales taxes any further, so we really ought to just raise the property tax rate and be done with it.

[RedScare]

We probably should agree on the size of our budget deficit before deciding what to tax to bridge it.

[AtticaFlinch]

We probably should agree on the size of our budget deficit before deciding what to tax to bridge it.

Based on that state comptroller link you posted on the other thread, our state expenditures have doubled in just over ten years. Who cares what tax we use to cover our ever expanding expenditures, let's just use something.

That, or we can just start kicking out some yankees.

[Hanuman]

Front page of the Wall Street Journal today is interesting article on $.05 tax in Washington DC on any plastic bag used to sell food products-

-any food product including mints in tin cans in a book store that had NO other food for sale and edible body frosting at a different store that had no other food for sale--

the money raised by this tax are set aside to help clean up the Anacostia River--but after I thought of Houston's $103 million deficit that was pointed out last summer I'm thinking . . . . . . .

could this be an option to get COH budget out of the red?

No Tax On Edible Body Frosting !!

[barracuda]

I don't think such a tax would solve the COH budget. However, the tax itself doesn't bother me. There are affordable alternatives, like reusing bags or making a one-time purchase of $3 reusable fabric bags that fit the equivalent of 3-4 plastic bags worth of groceries. I personally hate plastic bags simply because of how useless they are for carrying goods without falling apart.

Of course, there are also the environmental issues like the pacific garbage patch, currently about 3x the size of Texas and growing. Fish and birds eat our broken down plastic garbage and then starve to death because they can't digest it.

[Subdude]

These regulations are more of an effort to change people's behavior with respect to getting plastic bags than a primarily revenue-raising measure. That said, 5c a bag is way too small a charge to have a meaningful effect. I'm guessing, but I would say more like 50c-75c would be a more appropriate level to ensure people start using reusable bags.

[TheNiche]

I personally hate plastic bags simply because of how useless they are for carrying goods without falling apart.

I didn't have any problems with my ten cans of Wolf brand chili earlier tonight. The bagger at Battle Kroger just doubled up the bags and that was sufficient. Maybe you just shop at crappy grocery stores with inadequately-trained baggers.

Of course, there are also the environmental issues like the pacific garbage patch, currently about 3x the size of Texas and growing. Fish and birds eat our broken down plastic garbage and then starve to death because they can't digest it.

**** birds, and **** the horse latitudes, and **** the song of the same name by The Doors. I honestly don't care. And how are plastic bags from Washington D.C. supposed to find their way to the Pacific Ocean anyways?

Edited January 26, 2010 by TheNiche

[AtticaFlinch]

I didn't have any problems with my ten cans of Wolf brand chili earlier tonight. The bagger at Battle Kroger just doubled up the bags and that was sufficient. Maybe you just shop at crappy grocery stores with inadequately-trained baggers.

Had he bagged Hormel chili, it would have fallen apart easily. And it would have served you right too. Shame on anyone who buys Hormel chili.

**** birds, and **** the horse latitudes, and **** the song of the same name by The Doors. I honestly don't care. And how are plastic bags from Washington D.C. supposed to find their way to the Pacific Ocean anyways?

There's an Indian crying in the middle of the Pacific right now.

Probably because he's drowning, but maybe also a bit because of the litter.

Personally I find the bag island to be awesome. In a million years or so, when microbes have finally learned to digest plastics, we'll have a fully organic floating island on which to live. Undoubtably, all the Earth's frozen water will have melted throughout the world by then anyhow and all our current cities will be underwater, so we'll need somewhere to live. Where better than an island that rises and sinks with the tide?

[editor]

Plastic bags are illegal in some cities. Among them, San Francisco. I went to a grocery store there back in September and it wasn't the hardship I expected it to be. Paper bags with handles are pretty durable these days. I didn't have any problems with tearing, even with heavy bags.

Of course, if it rains, that might be a different scenario. I guess that's why there's reusable bags.

[Hanuman]

Had he bagged Hormel chili, it would have fallen apart easily. And it would have served you right too. Shame on anyone who buys Hormel chili.

Shame on anyone near someone who has been eating Hormel Chili, or Hormel Tamales... WMD's!!!

There's an Indian crying in the middle of the Pacific right now.

Probably because he's drowning, but maybe also a bit because of the litter. Probably because he just realized he's in the middle of the Pacific, and he's going to drown?

Personally I find the bag island to be awesome. In a million years or so, when microbes have finally learned to digest plastics, we'll have a fully organic floating island on which to live. Undoubtably, all the Earth's frozen water will have melted throughout the world by then anyhow and all our current cities will be underwater, so we'll need somewhere to live. Where better than an island that rises and sinks with the tide?

I think another bag island is actually a great idea. Al, please give us a comment...

[musicman]

Front page of the Wall Street Journal today is interesting article on $.05 tax in Washington DC on any plastic bag used to sell food products-

-any food product including mints in tin cans in a book store that had NO other food for sale and edible body frosting at a different store that had no other food for sale--

the money raised by this tax are set aside to help clean up the Anacostia River--but after I thought of Houston's $103 million deficit that was pointed out last summer I'm thinking . . . . . . .

could this be an option to get COH budget out of the red?

would be interesting to see why this only pertains to specific types of businesses. so i guess i could buy toilet paper or a cd at target and have no problem.

[barracuda]

I didn't have any problems with my ten cans of Wolf brand chili earlier tonight. The bagger at Battle Kroger just doubled up the bags and that was sufficient. Maybe you just shop at crappy grocery stores with inadequately-trained baggers.

Actually, I prefer the baggers who place a single item in each double-bag in order to maximize waste and time spent unpacking. It's my right as an American.

**** birds, and **** the horse latitudes, and **** the song of the same name by The Doors. I honestly don't care. And how are plastic bags from Washington D.C. supposed to find their way to the Pacific Ocean anyways?

I find it interesting that you feel so insulated and independent from nature that you honestly don't care about it's destruction.

The pacific garbage patch is merely an example of the largest plastic trash dump on earth. Revenue from the D.C. bag tax is meant for cleaning up the scenic Anacostia River, a heavily polluted waterway which cuts through D.C. and drains into the Chesapeake Bay.

That said, waterways and ocean currents to have the ability to carry objects long distances until they make landfall or become stuck in a circular current. Just look at the SoCal beaches last weekend after a major storm. But hey, why would anyone mind? It's really more of a bonus, something for the kids to sift through during the next visit to the beach.

[musicman]

But hey, why would anyone mind? It's really more of a bonus, something for the kids to sift through during the next visit to the beach.

i guess parenting skills have evolved since i was younger. looks like there is a body floating in that debris.

[TheNiche]

I find it interesting that you feel so insulated and independent from nature that you honestly don't care about it's destruction.

Oh, I'm sorry. I should've been more specific. **** those birds, the ones in the middle of the Pacific Ocean with all the garbage that the vast majority of people will never encounter.

My take on plastic is pretty much in line with George Carlin's old environmentalism bit. It exists without meaning. It doesn't have to be good or bad. It just has to be useful when I want it to be and out of my hair otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw

[BryanS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R-FZsysQNw

[TheNiche]

Vapid rhetoric does not influence my opinion on this matter.

[crunchtastic]

Vapid rhetoric does not influence my opinion on this matter.

Your phrasing almost suggests that vapid rhetoric might sway you on some other matter.

Think of the children, Niche.

The sweet, helpless children!

[jgriff]

I work for a company that builds the plants that make the plastic that goes into those bags. I don't want to have to say "They took my job." but it's starting to look like I might.

We used to have a manager that told us to "Make sure to use plastic bags and plenty of them." when we went to the grocery store.

Most of the engineering that goes into making the materials for those plastic bags is probably done in Houston so if you like economic development in Houston stop caring about the Pacific and use more plastic bags.

[Hanuman]

i guess parenting skills have evolved since i was younger. looks like there is a body floating in that debris.

That's not a dead body floating in the photo, that's me snorkling there. I was conducting an in-depth environmental study. I will be in the Pacific this weekend interviewing crying Indians... I will keep you all posted.

[AtticaFlinch]

I work for a company that builds the plants that make the plastic that goes into those bags. I don't want to have to say "They took my job." but it's starting to look like I might.

We used to have a manager that told us to "Make sure to use plastic bags and plenty of them." when we went to the grocery store.

Most of the engineering that goes into making the materials for those plastic bags is probably done in Houston so if you like economic development in Houston stop caring about the Pacific and use more plastic bags.

Yeah, that's a good reason too, but...

The biggest reason I don't want these bags to go anywhere is because I don't want to be required to buy liners for my bathroom trash cans.

[barracuda]

I work for a company that builds the plants that make the plastic that goes into those bags. I don't want to have to say "They took my job." but it's starting to look like I might.

We used to have a manager that told us to "Make sure to use plastic bags and plenty of them." when we went to the grocery store.

Most of the engineering that goes into making the materials for those plastic bags is probably done in Houston so if you like economic development in Houston stop caring about the Pacific and use more plastic bags.

I don't think you have much to worry about. Getting your groceries bagged in plastic bags, one to three items per bag, is the default for most baggers. They will do this even if the item being purchased has it's own handle. Even if bag usage were to decline, there must be other applications for the plastic made by those plants...

Edited January 28, 2010 by barracuda

[TheNiche]

Even if bag usage were to decline, there must be other applications for the plastic made by those plants...

jgriff said that he's involved in building the plants. The problem with that is that if the market for their refined products contracts, then he doesn't just have to wait until demand starts growing again for his sector to start hiring...he has to wait until demand fully recovers AND exceeds what it had been at the peak of the market before he can expect to add new capacity.

That's why I've been out of work so long and am seeking a career change. It's the same story in commercial real estate or any other specific field whose growth is driven by general economic growth. It'll be YEARS before the most highly technical skills I gained in that kind of position are even transferable between industries again, much less demanded in my former industry. ...and that's the short story of how the Air National Guard or Naval Reserve is probably going to end up paying for my MBA, CFA, and CMA.

Edited January 28, 2010 by TheNiche

[mkultra25]

The biggest reason I don't want these bags to go anywhere is because I don't want to be required to buy liners for my bathroom trash cans.

I can live with buying liners, but the basic grocery-store plastic bag has few equals when it comes to picking up dog crap, particularly for the large-breed owner.

[RedScare]

Rhetorically speaking...

jgriff is well known on this forum for not giving a about the plights or concerns of others. Could someone or griff please explain why we should now care about his employment, especially when his unemployment may improve our enjoyment of the great outdoors?

Aside to Niche: Aren't you the guy who wrote a long-winded recap of your several week kayak ride down one of Texas' great waterways?

[TheNiche]

jgriff is well known on this forum for not giving a flurf about the plights or concerns of others. Could someone or griff please explain why we should now care about his employment, especially when his unemployment may improve our enjoyment of the great outdoors?

jgriff provided unsolicited assistance to me in my job search recently. So yeah, I don't think that those comments are really fair to him.

Aside to Niche: Aren't you the guy who wrote a long-winded recap of your several week kayak ride down one of Texas' great waterways?

Yep, that's me. I can't ever imagine kayaking around in the Pacific Ocean many hundreds of miles from land, however. And I'm certainly never going to be sailing or otherwise boating there, for the same reasons that the trash accumulates in that area...no wind and vast amounts of seaweed.

I'm OK with trash in this area for the same reason I'm OK with developing ANWR. It's vast, ugly, uninhabited, and very nearly devoid of recreational opportunity. If a tree falls in the forest...

To draw another comparison to ANWR, I have to wonder whether--in the same way as that a hot pipeline in the tundra creates new ecosystems and adds to biological diversity--whether heaps of accumulated trash and seaweed might actually provide a boon to aquatic wildlife that otherwise wouldn't have stood a chance. ...not that I care, or anything. But it could prove an interesting way of defusing the arguments of aesthetic environmentalists.

[RedScare]

Yep, that's me. I can't ever imagine kayaking around in the Pacific Ocean many hundreds of miles from land, however. And I'm certainly never going to be sailing or otherwise boating there, for the same reasons that the trash accumulates in that area...no wind and vast amounts of seaweed.

How about a little closer to home...

Buffalo Bayou

[AtticaFlinch]

I'm OK with trash in this area for the same reason I'm OK with developing ANWR. It's vast, ugly, uninhabited, and very nearly devoid of recreational opportunity. If a tree falls in the forest...

ANWR's ugly and devoid of recreational activity? Respectfully, I disagree with that. It's uninhabited (by people) certainly, but it's hardly ugly or devoid of recreational activity.

To draw another comparison to ANWR, I have to wonder whether--in the same way as that a hot pipeline in the tundra creates new ecosystems and adds to biological diversity--whether heaps of accumulated trash and seaweed might actually provide a boon to aquatic wildlife that otherwise wouldn't have stood a chance.

Really? Do go on.

[TheNiche]

How about a little closer to home...

Buffalo Bayou

The device shown in the photo is performing as intended. That's how the bayou shores in Memorial Park seem so pristine and remote.

[RedScare]

jgriff provided unsolicited assistance to me in my job search recently. So yeah, I don't think that those comments are really fair to him.

Applying the logic used by jgriff in this thread, I find my comments to be imminently fair.