Chevron Skyscraper Proposal At 1600 Louisiana St.

[King Owl]

So basically a lot of anecdotal evidence regarding xom. Ok thanks.

Many times a corporate move is a way to cut dead weight. The top performers will be compensated to make it worth their while to stay

Edited July 12, 2013 by King Owl

[jt16]

I know an XOM engineer being moved to ...Tyler and its a good career move. I know another that recently moved to Brussels. I suspect some will leave the company but I don't think XOM is worried if that's what you're implying.

[Triton]

Seriously?  I don't hear anyone talking about the Exxon campus.  In fact, I'm surprised at how many people I encounter who know nothing about it.  (Similar to my surprise at the number of people who know nothing or almost nothign about the under-construction rail lines.)

 

Everyone on the far northside is talking about it. My family lives in Spring and I have a few friends that live in the Woodlands, and all of them have been talking about the Exxon campus and even a future UPS distribution center near the Exxon campus. It's more local buzz than city wide. On the other hand, when everyone sees this tower under construction while they're driving past downtown, they're going to at least wonder what's going up there. You can barely even see Exxon... just a boatload of cranes.

[Montrose1100]

Have any anti-oil/climate change/occupy this ever protested any buildings Dowtown? Other than corporate espionage what is Exxon so afraid of?

Edited July 13, 2013 by Montrose1100

[Ross]

Have any anti-oil/climate change/occupy this ever protested any buildings Dowtown? Other than corporate espionage what is Exxon so afraid of?

 

Greenpeace entered and occupied ExxonMobil's head office in Dallas a few years back. i Seem to recall they also hung a banner on the building downtown, but I could be wrong.

[Howard Huge]

The problem with exterior features is all related to the cost of curtain wall. About 5 years ago the bottom fell out of the glass market and something called unitized curtain wall started to become the norm. Unitized curtain wall has a ton of benefits beyond traditional stick built glazing including: (energy performance, structural performance, keeping water out performance).

Once unitized systems became the standard, it became cost prohibitive to do anything else in the spandrel portion of the facade. We can use metal panels, stone, etc but in order to keep cost down they are typically glazed into the curtain wall. Combine that with the fact that there are less than 10 proven unitized designs on the market right now leads us to the era of "the boring glass box"

Architects are fighting this like mad but they are up against significant challenges from developers (cost). We are seeing products start to compete but this glass box trend is going to be around for a while.

Funny how this "era of the boring glass box" phenomena only seems to apply to new construction in HOUSTON and not cities like New York or Chicago.

Lets get real here, its not like people aren't designing and building visually striking and unique architecture anymore. It's only the developers who want to cheap out and go "cost effective" that are building the boring glass boxes, which basically goes along with what you explained, in a nutshell.

[Howard Huge]

DISCLAIMER: This is not meant to be taken as a personal attack on King Owl or anyone else. It is a simple friendly observation and opinion.

...Of course they could have done better. Name one project that couldn't have been "done better" and I'll give you 10 reasons how it could have been done better. "Done better" is a rather lame position. It can always be done better. And better to who? Just because some people are perfectly happy with this project (as per the rendering) doesn't necessarily mean that they have bad taste. Maybe YOU and your i-buddies have bad taste. Maybe if the tower you envision is built, it would ruin the skyline, maybe not. It's all subjective.

King Owl, if people are allowed to be unhappy with this tower. They are also allowed to be happy with it too for any reasons they want. And if you have the right to repeat your objections until you feel that you have been perfectly understood, then so do others.

'People talking' is also subjective. People ARE talking about it, maybe not the people you want to be talking about it, and maybe not for the reasons you want them to be talking about it - but they ARE talking about it, and I agree with Kinkaid, they will continue to be talking about it at Haif and elsewhere for a good long time (if built).

First you say:

"DISCLAIMER: This is not meant to be taken as a personal attack on King Owl

Then you say:

"Done better" is a rather lame position"

and

"Maybe YOU and your i-buddies have bad taste"

and

"Maybe if the tower you envision is built, it would ruin the skyline"

All while calling King Owl out personally:

"King Owl, if people are allowed to be unhappy with this tower."

It's textbook trolling and baiting, it's off topic, and it's derailing the thread into a "Mister X versus King Owl" match. Cut it out.

King Owl simply gave his opinion that the tower could have been better, without quoting or directing it toward anyone in particular. He didn't cherry pick a Mister X post and say "Mister X's opinion is stupid, this tower sucks".

You on the other hand........

[VelvetJ]

Howard Huge's last two posts were SPOT ON!

[treblelino]

Funny how this "era of the boring glass box" phenomena only seems to apply to new construction in HOUSTON and not cities like New York or Chicago.

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

Lets get real here, its not like people aren't designing and building visually striking and unique architecture anymore. It's only the developers who want to cheap out and go "cost effective" that are building the boring glass boxes, which basically goes along with what you explained, in a nutshell.

[treblelino]

That's because those cities' buildings are not boring. Look at the beautiful architecture.

[nativehoustonion]

Exactly, we should be proud with this office tower. Everybody just wait for the final design. We have been waiting for years, so cheer! It will make a major impact on our skyline.

[cloud713]

What was this thread about? Oh, yeah, Chevron tower. Is it possible that the boring rendering we've seen is not the final but only an initial design?

 

Exactly, we should be proud with this office tower. Everybody just wait for the final design. We have been waiting for years, so cheer! It will make a major impact on our skyline.

i mentioned it a few pages back so you might of missed it, but if you look at the renderings, they do absolutely no justice for 1500 Louisiana or 1400 Smith Street. those towers are beautiful. even if this ends up being the final design (i know everyone was hoping for a flashy signature building) im sure it will look much better in person than in the renderings, just like the rest of Chevrons downtown campus.

[editor]

Funny how this "era of the boring glass box" phenomena only seems to apply to new construction in HOUSTON and not cities like New York or Chicago.

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

Lets get real here, its not like people aren't designing and building visually striking and unique architecture anymore. It's only the developers who want to cheap out and go "cost effective" that are building the boring glass boxes, which basically goes along with what you explained, in a nutshell.

Well, that's not entirely correct.  All but one of the buildings you pointed out was heartily panned by architecture critics both amateur and professional.

 

And to imply that other cities aren't building glass boxes is incorrect.  EVERY city is doing glass boxes these days because they're cheap and you get the most bang for your buck.  When the economy recovers on a global scale, that's when people will start to get fancy.

 

To illustrate my point the way you illustrated yours:

 

Skyscrapers completed in Chicago this year:

The Coast - glass box

500 LSD - glass box

K2 - concrete box

 

Skyscrapers currently under construction in Chicago:

111 West Wacker - glass box

Loyola Tower - glass box

71 East Lake - glass box

AMLI River North - concrete box

Optima Center - glass box

Hubbard place - Glass and concrete rounded box

Loews Hotel - Glass box

River Point - Not quite box!  Thanks, Hines!

212 West Illinois - Glass box

Catalyst - Glass box with weird colors

Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago - Glass box

East-West University Vertical campus - Glass box

 

Skyscrapers planned to start in 2013-2014 in Chicago:

Wolf Point West - Glass box - Thanks for nothing, Hines!

200 North Michigan - Glass box

Northwestern Memorial unnamed laboratory tower - glass box

PD70-2-O - Glass bo

601 West Jackson - Glass box

601 West Monroe - Glass triangle

Atrium Village - concrete boxes

Jewel Tower - concrete box (being revised into a glass box)

Old Saint Patrick's Tower - glass box

Gateway Phase II - half glass half concrete box

301 South Wacker - Three glass boxes

Amtrak Tower - Glass cylinder

400 West Randolph - Glass box

Chicago+LaSalle - Half glass half concrete box

765 West Adams - Concrete box

1333 South Wabash - Glass box

108 North Jefferson - Glass box

Yet another McCormick Place hotel - concrete box

900ish South State - Glass box

 

I think you can see the trend here.

 

It's not about aesthetics.  I talk to architects every week who moan that they wish they could be more creative, especially in their American projects.  But it's all about money.  Architects build what their clients want.  Right now, for the most part, that's glass boxes.

There as an article I read the other day about Energy Corridor IV (I think that was the name) in Houston.  There as a passing mention in the article that the building was being built on spec.  On behalf of the rest of North America, allow me to say, "Oh, holy crap, Houston!"  You people should be so proud that you have an economy that supports building ANYTHING on spec these days.  It's virtually unheard of elsewhere on the continent.  Roll up your sleeves, reach over your heads and give yourselves a well-deserved pat on the back.  The rest of us admire you greatly for that.

 

(And if you want to know anything else about buildings in Chicago, visit HAIF's sister sites: Chicago Architecture Info, and The Chicago Architecture Blog.  60,000 readers can't be wrong!)

[editor]

Oh, and I forgot to mention -- keep this thread ON TOPIC.  No more tit-for-tat.  I'm getting tired of deleting messages that amount to little more than schoolyard spats.  Try to converse like adults.

[Mister X]

I bet a lot of people will be very happy with this tower after it's built. 

[Howard Huge]

And to imply that other cities aren't building glass boxes is incorrect.

I think you missed my point. I wasnt trying to imply that other cities arent building glass boxes, im sure theyre being built in record numbers everywhere, I know they are in Houston lol. I was really countering what someone else had said that implied EVERY SINGLE NEW BUILDING BUILT POST 2008 ANYWHERE AND EVERYWHERE HAS TO BE A GLASS BOX.

While the numbers might not be great, I was just pointing out that some buildings are still being designed "outside the box" and that even though these glass boxes are the norm now, it's not like people arent building, or cant build anything other than a boring glass box, the pics I posted were just examples of that.

Other cities are still producing skyscrapers that are far from "glass boxes", I wish Houston could too.

[Howard Huge]

Oh, and I forgot to mention -- keep this thread ON TOPIC. No more tit-for-tat. I'm getting tired of deleting messages that amount to little more than schoolyard spats. Try to converse like adults.

Thank you!

[cloud713]

deleted

Edited July 14, 2013 by cloud713

[Urbannizer]

City Veto of Abatement Could Hinder $12M State Grant to Chevron

 

 

The Houston City Council could veto a $12 million state grant to help Chevron build a 50-story tower downtown if it fails to add some city money to the pot.

 

Few on the council appear inclined to vote down a $2.7 million tax abatement for the oil and gas giant, but some have questioned the wisdom of the proposal, noting Chevron long has had plans for the tract at 1600 Louisiana.

 

Program rules for the Texas Enterprise Fund, an economic development tool run by Gov. Rick Perry's office, from which the $12 million would be drawn, require a local match. Perry spokesman Rich Parsons said a City Council rejection would not automatically torpedo the deal, however.

 

Precisely what Houston would need to do to satisfy its role is unclear. The only written guidelines are on a state website, stating deals require "community involvement … primarily in the form of local economic incentive offers."

Chevron, which reported a first-quarter profit of $6.2 billion, announced it would buy the tract at 1600 Louisiana - next door to the former Enron towers, which the firm also owns - five years ago, saying the purchase would allow "flexibility and options for the future."

 

The Texas Enterprise Fund also requires the company receiving the funds to be considering whether to invest in Texas or another state. Chevron stated it was deciding between California or Houston, Parsons said.

Chevron, which has said it plans to create 1,700 new jobs in Houston over the next eight years, said it considered other locations for those positions.

 

"We evaluated a number of factors - including the potential for incentives - in the decision to locate them in Houston and build new office space to accommodate this growth," Chevron spokesman Russell Johnson said in an email Thursday. Other factors, he said, included "the availability and quality of space, economics, and the locations of businesses that these jobs would support."

 

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/City-veto-of-abatement-could-hinder-12M-state-4673789.php

[Moore713]

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/City-veto-of-abatement-could-hinder-12M-state-4673789.php

 

Houston gets a new skyscapper the area get a upgrade, and addiontion 1700 jobs are added that downtown needs given the loss it about to take when exxon  packs up and moves to the woodlands..

 

I just can not understand what the hell somes memeber on that board could be thinking ??

Edited July 19, 2013 by Moore713

[King Owl]

City Council should use this as leverage to get some better aesthetics on the building...  Maybe a decorative crown or something.  It's going to be a very visible, long lasting contribution to our skyline -- make it look better, please.

Edited July 19, 2013 by King Owl

[Hugh Stone]

You mean like this decorative crown? Would you really want city council members making design by committee decisions on aesthetics on high profile buildings in downtown Houston? Yes make it better, but better to who? The guy who approved this beauty...? Careful what you wish for. At least what Chevron is currently proposing won't hurt downtown. When you see the effects of high profile ugly it makes you realize that there are worse things than boring.

 

Edited July 19, 2013 by Hugh Stone

[Moore713]

City Council should use this as leverage to get some better aesthetics on the building...  Maybe a decorative crown or something.  It's going to be a very visible, long lasting contribution to our skyline -- make it look better, please.

 

I dont want there input on anything image related.. they have no sense of style..  if they got there way  it would be a another brown box, as they rave about how amazing it is...

[KinkaidAlum]

$126.10 is what Chevron stock is trading at today. They are FLUSH with billions in cash. The city and state are not. Maybe that is what some of the council members are thinking?

 

I want a shiny new tower as much as the next guy but corporate welfare is beyond outrageous. 

[ClutchCity]

But what's the tax rate on a $250,000,000+ building? They'll, in all likelihood, pay more than the $14,700,000 in tax rebates that they are getting, at least over a few years(5-10) and then the city and state profit for the remaining life of the building. That's not even including the taxes gained from the 1,700 high paying jobs Chevron will create(they'll probably have nice size houses who cares about the Feds). I also think it is a good example for other companies looking to build in Houston that the city and state want them here.

Edit: The city council approved a $1,000,000 tax rebate for a freaking Costco in KATY. Outside city limits. And they are questioning if they should give a MUCH bigger project just a little more?! I'm holding back obscenities for their incompetence.

Edited July 19, 2013 by ClutchCity

[JJxvi]

The city's portion of tax (assuming the building ended up on the roll at $250 million) would be a little under $3M per year.

[KinkaidAlum]

What residential tax break did I get from the city when I purchased a tear down, employed dozens of people, and spent tons of cash in local stores to fix her up? None. In fact, my taxes skyrocketed once the project was complete.

 

Sure, it's a drop in the ocean compared to Chevron, but so is my income compared to CVX's.

 

Having tax codes and laws and then constantly breaking them is just stupid policy. Either someone else has to pay more or we wend up with crappy schools, Third World roads, busting water and sewer pipes, closed city pools, etc...

[King Owl]

You mean like this decorative crown? Would you really want city council members making design by committee decisions on aesthetics on high profile buildings in downtown Houston? Yes make it better, but better to who? The guy who approved this beauty...? Careful what you wish for. At least what Chevron is currently proposing won't hurt downtown. When you see the effects of high profile ugly it makes you realize that there are worse things than boring.

 

How exactly did you make the logic leap from my post to assume that I would want city council to be making the design by committee decisions?

 

Talk about a logic fail on your part.

[swtsig]

The city's portion of tax (assuming the building ended up on the roll at $250 million) would be a little under $3M per year.

taxable will be much closer to $450M than $250M.

[Hugh Stone]

How exactly did you make the logic leap from my post to assume that I would want city council to be making the design by committee decisions?

 

Talk about a logic fail on your part.

 

You're right, I guess I should have assumed your post was directed at God when you said "make it better".

 

So, if not the city council or God -  who then? Chevron? I think they already made their aesthetic decisions. Maybe the citizens of Houston should get to vote for a tall building design Czar so that we don't get any more boring buildings or cheap crowns. 

 

No need getting huffy. I'm just trying to understand the logistics of how the downtown skyline can be made "better".

Edited July 19, 2013 by Hugh Stone