samagon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The last Idylwood Civic Club meeting had something of a brouhaha between those for and those against this deal. It's still fairly early to draw any swords but there are petitions being circulated already. So if they get a long term lease from the COH, raise the money to make it a reality and no one wants to visit this side of town, what happens then? then we've spent a lot of money to lose the best municipal course inside the loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trymahjong Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 There is a group committed to doing this. To donate to this effort, please make your check payable toHouston Botanic GardenAnd send toHouston Botanic Garden P. O. Box 27510Houston, Texas 77227I tried (unsuccessfully) to surf the internet to find the cost of building a small "themed" garden-- but I did find what it costs to rent those gardens for weddings or other celebrations from $500 for a couple of hours to $2000 + for 2 hours-- Maybe a small themed garden would generate enough money through rentals to help pay for installation. full disclosure all of the gardens I found had themes running along lines of Shakespeare or Elizabethan so I guess who ever choses the theme would have to be careful. . . . . . . not sure if there would be the same response to "Ma Ferguson" or "Jane Long" gardens but then again. . . . . maybe. Guess it would be great for some "Garden Angel Philanthropist" to step up and provide money for garden in exchange for their name on a brass path plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trymahjong Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I had posted (from Ellen Cohens enewsletter) this under City government but then noticed that the Quality of life committee will hear presentation on a botanical garden-- I couldn't find any other details on the internet. March Quality of Life Committee MeetingCouncil Member Cohen will chair the March meeting of the Quality of Life Committee on Wednesday, March 26th at 2:00PM. The committee expects to view presentations on a proposed anti-hoarding ordinance; the Houston Department of Health and Human Services; and possible locations for a Houston Botanical Garden. The Committee meeting will be held in Council Chambers at City Hall (901 Bagby St, 2nd floor) and is open to the public. Citizens will have the opportunity to address the committee and may sign up to do so the day-of in Council Chambers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little frau Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 The botanic garden people have taken their plans to include a 9 hole golf course (at Gus Wortham) completely off the table. I understand that they have lost some community support because of this. There is to be a meeting on March 31 to discuss the fate of the historic golf course. www.worthamparkfriends.org/tags/robert-gallegos/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trymahjong Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I had posted (from Ellen Cohens enewsletter) this under City government but then noticed that the Quality of life committee will hear presentation on a botanical garden-- I couldn't find any other details on the internet. March Quality of Life Committee MeetingCouncil Member Cohen will chair the March meeting of the Quality of Life Committee on Wednesday, March 26th at 2:00PM. The committee expects to view presentations on a proposed anti-hoarding ordinance; the Houston Department of Health and Human Services; and possible locations for a Houston Botanical Garden. The Committee meeting will be held in Council Chambers at City Hall (901 Bagby St, 2nd floor) and is open to the public. Citizens will have the opportunity to address the committee and may sign up to do so the day-of in Council Chambers. When this newsletter says "possible locations" how many locations are on the table? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little frau Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I don't personally know and have only seen a master plan of one location, Cullinan in Sugarland, which has been mentioned here. Houston Botanic Garden also considered Herman Brown Park out I-10 & Mercury but for whatever reasons, it fell through as did the Sugarland location. There's some old newspaper pieces floating around the net about the Herman Brown deal. Having said that, there were rumors in the east end that several other locations had been suggested by the COH Parks department, all of which were rejected by the HBG. Perhaps Cohen will cover those other locations. HBG had some green yard signs printed in English on one side and Spanish on the other, stating something about supporting a garden WITH a golf course. They popped up in yards across the east end as well as the red Save Gus Wortham signs from the Harrisburg Heritage Society. Somehow word got out that the Houston Botanic Garden could not or would not include a golf course in their design for Wortham and Idylwood pulled their support, not that it means anything in the grand scheme. Bottom line is that the botanic garden folks never wanted to have a golf course. Their initial proposal to the different organizations in the east end, back in August & September '13, only stated that there was a "possibility" of including a 9 hole course. Last I heard, HBG does not have a master plan for Gus Wortham. I suppose they put out a lot of money on the one for Cullinan before they had the OK on the location. They probably don't want to repeat that mistake. But, why would the city give them a long term lease WITHOUT seeing a master plan? Maybe because the CEO of HBG is an old college chum of Ms Mayor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 It seems the other site currently under consideration is the Glenbrook golf course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little frau Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 The local word is that the town hall meeting to be held Monday 3-31 will cover plans for Wortham. Ross will speak about HBG and there is to be a presentation of the master plan for restoring Wortham Golf Course. Gallegos is a Parker puppet so he will be no help for the course preservation folks. He's still all bent out of shape about the Wayside Walmart. Not sure where the Glenbrook info originated but that may be out the door before it even got in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 As part of planning for a botanical garden I would like to see a section devoted to a garden for the blind. I have been to one and it was amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little frau Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Since the HBG will be a private non profit, they will do as they please but they may listen to suggestions tomorrow night at the town hall meeting. They will cut down many of the old oaks and no one can protest to the city about anything. I personally wish they'd put it in the middle of River Oaks. Or Southampton where Jeff Ross lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intencity77 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) I think a botanical garden is just what our city needs and as an East End resident I fully support it! I believe the proposed gardens would be a better use of the land and would be more, all around inviting than any golf course. Instead of this public land existing mainly for just golfers, it could be of use for everyone! I seriously don't see how any rational East End resident could be against this, unless they are an avid golfer and use the course to a great extent. Besides, this is the way of Houston, nothing and I do mean nothing ever sticks around permanently, including "historic" golf courses. Let's get this built! Edited March 31, 2014 by intencity77 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little frau Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 First off, I really hope that someone else that attended comes here and gives their impression of the Town Hall meeting tonight, 3-31-14. I can give my thoughts but I'm so biased in the 'pro Gus' camp that I'd really like to read some in the 'pro garden' camp just to see if I miss-read the audience. I don't really think that many who were there tonight (3-31) actually read and post here but I'm willing to give it a chance. I'll check back in a day or two but it seemed a bit one sided tonight. Pro Golf Course.......for history and the youth. Doesn't really mean much if MAP is opposed though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) I did not make it to the meeting, and am a little surprised that the crowd was predominantly pro GW. I say that because the Eastwood civic association and other neighbors with very close ties to Parker administration are aggressively asking for botanic garden support. Did the garden group present any finanical plan or projections with anything resembling a reasonable picture of how they intend to raise $40 million, annual revenue projections, etc? Because there are some mighty big claims as to jobs creation and investment being thrown around that I just can't believe. Not to mention, what are the terms of the lease? I get it, the city wants to wash its hands of the golf course and are willing to let a friend of the administration with a nice pitch have it, as long as the checks cash. Below is the email I've been asked to sign and send to Council and MAPs office. It is chock full of economic inpact claims that I frankly don't trust. Needless to say I'll be writing my own in order to voice my concerns about the claims comapared to the 'plan'. It almost seems as if we're being strong-armed with the "well, the course is toast no matter what, so you better take this option now" argument. Curious if they spoke at all of the latest status on the overpass that will extend the rail line. When the green line opens later this year it will essentially dead end at Altic; AFAIK there is no date on when the full line will be complete. "Mayor Parker, CM Gallegos and City Council Members: Thank you again for providing us the opportunity to voice our many and varied opinions at the Town hall meeting yesterday. Mr. Icken’s presentation stated the current financial situation perfectly; Gus Wortham Golf Course loses money every year (while Glenbrook actually pays the City) and there are no City dollars available to update/rehab this failing city golf course. The Gus Wortham location is preferred for the Botanic Garden due to its inside the loop location, convergences of I-10, Hwy 45 and Hwy 90/Wayside PLUS the new EastEnd light rail connecting it to the rest of the city. Its location is accessible (within 15 minutes/miles) to 75% of all Houston residents and will have some $50 to $100 million in economic impact for the city as a whole and the EASTEND in particular. All in all, the Gus Wortham location is the BEST, most fiscally responsible location, for the Houston Botanic Garden. Each group, The Houston Botanic Garden and the Friends of Gus Wortham, will soon present their vision for Gus Wortham to you; the options are these… a) The Botanic Garden will bring $40Million in investment directly to the EASTEND The Friends of GW raise $14 Million for the rehab of the golf course Option A has the potential to bring jobs, community and educational outreach, tourism, restaurants, retail—huge economic development to Houston and the EastEndOption B will bring in jobs during the 6-12 month redevelopment period. The Friends must then continue to fundraise to cover any shortfall in the day to day operations of GW There is a third option; the Friends of Gus Wortham win the contract and DON’T raise the contracted $14 million. The EastEnd will have lost the Garden, receive minimal redevelopment for GW and the economic growth promised by both is lost forever. What are the consequences of either party failing to meet their contractual obligation? Mayor Parker and councilmembers, the entire city will support a Houston Botanic Garden; they raised over $300,000 at a two hour luncheon in November 2013 alone. I understand they currently have over $1Million in the bank (without a firm garden location) compared to the Friends of GW who have raised just over $100,000 in five years. I ask you to support a self-sustaining Houston Botanic Garden at Gus Wortham and access for the many, not just the few. Thank you. " Edited April 1, 2014 by crunchtastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4510jim Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 An 18 hole golf course or a 150 acre botanical garden on Wayside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naviguessor Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Garden gets mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little frau Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm in the putter camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Note topics merged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trymahjong Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 First off, I really hope that someone else that attended comes here and gives their impression of the Town Hall meeting tonight, 3-31-14. I can give my thoughts but I'm so biased in the 'pro Gus' camp that I'd really like to read some in the 'pro garden' camp just to see if I miss-read the audience. I don't really think that many who were there tonight (3-31) actually read and post here but I'm willing to give it a chance. I'll check back in a day or two but it seemed a bit one sided tonight. Pro Golf Course.......for history and the youth. Doesn't really mean much if MAP is opposed though.So did someone from the "Garden" camp attend? Will you post your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 it doesnt look like anyone posted this article. its about a week old (from just before the meeting), but still has some interesting information and opinions.http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Which-park-should-be-home-to-Houston-botanical-5361822.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 So did someone from the "Garden" camp attend? Will you post your thoughts?i guess not? can someone from the "golf" camp at least give their take on the meeting? biased or not its nice to get some input of what went on for those of us who didnt attend.other than these golf courses where could a Botanical Gardens go? i guess there is Hardy Yards and KBG site, and the Astroworld, but practically all of those sites are treeless and would need a lot of mature trees imported ($$$) to set the ambiance of a Houston botanical garden.i guess something important we would need to know for that is what size should the botanical garden be? i did some quick research on other botanical gardens around the state to see what we are up against..San Antonios botanical garden - 33 acresDallas' botanical garden - 66 acresFt Worths botanical garden - 109 acresfor comparison, NYCs is 250 acres.ive only been to the SA botanical garden but felt it was a decent size for older people and people with disabilities (my mother has a muscle disease and cant walk super long distances), but for the sake of competition and being the best in the state were going to want to have a much larger botanical garden.. heh. maybe they can have little scooters for to rent for people with disabilities, or have one smaller section of the gardens be like "gardens from around the world", close to the front, to kind of sum up the whole place for the people who cant make it all the way around a 100+ acre park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largeTEXAS Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 If I remember correctly, Gus Wortham is about 140-150 acres. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 If I remember correctly, Gus Wortham is about 140-150 acres. Yes, according to the Chron article linked above, it is 150 acres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) It looks like the hardy yards are ~50 acres, KBR is 136 acres, and astroworld was around 75 acres.. I think astroworld would be the best location of the 3 for a botanical gardens IMO, but I'm sure the owners want too much money for the land, and HLSAR bought half the property already. KBR just seems in too shady of an area and too isolated, and hardy yards would be better suited as a mixed use development. As much as I enjoy golfing im thinking the course off 45 that spans both sides of the bayou, with a little bayou wrapping around the west side of the course would be the best setting for a garden. Right off 45 for easy access. They'd just have to plant some really tall skyrocket junipers or some big trees along the north side to block any refineries from view., heh. The only reason Gus wortham isn't in the middle of no where is the light rail line they're building out there.. But I don't see many people taking what's likely to be the least utilized light rail line in the system all the way out to the gardens. Edited April 9, 2014 by cloud713 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trymahjong Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 It looks like the hardy yards are ~50 acres, KBR is 136 acres, and astroworld was around 75 acres.. I think astroworld would be the best location of the 3 for a botanical gardens IMO, but I'm sure the owners want too much money for the land, and HLSAR bought half the property already. KBR just seems in too shady of an area and too isolated, and hardy yards would be better suited as a mixed use development. As much as I enjoy golfing im thinking the course off 45 that spans both sides of the bayou, with a little bayou wrapping around the west side of the course would be the best setting for a garden. Right off 45 for easy access. They'd just have to plant some really tall skyrocket junipers or some big trees along the north side to block any refineries from view., heh. The only reason Gus wortham isn't in the middle of no where is the light rail line they're building out there.. But I don't see many people taking what's likely to be the least utilized light rail line in the system all the way out to the gardens. Astroworld acerage? I like the idea of utilizing the Astrodome in some way. . . . dig up all the concrete, build 3 or 4 stories of underground parking place a botanic garden on top. . . . . . hmmmmmmmmmmbut then there is the rodeo thingy . . . . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tower26 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I would like the city to utilize more pine trees in certain parts . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naviguessor Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Tower. I would too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brhaltx Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Astroworld acerage? I like the idea of utilizing the Astrodome in some way. . . . dig up all the concrete, build 3 or 4 stories of underground parking place a botanic garden on top. . . . . . hmmmmmmmmmmbut then there is the rodeo thingy . . . . . Does the rodeo use the Astrodome? The Astrodome would be a great botanical garden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txn4art Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Anyone who suggests the Astrodome as a great site for a botanic garden hasn't visited many botanic gardens! Establishing a botanic garden takes a lot more work than moving dirt around and planting a bunch of trees and flowers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Allen Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Houston has several lovely gardens if you know where to look. But, we have become a self proclaimed World City! And it seems the rest of the world agrees to a certain extent. So, I am just throwing this out into the Universe and let the cards fall where they will. We need something akin to the Huntington Gardens and Library near Pasadena CA. A combination of local flora and fauna intermixed with say, three HUGE glass domes, pyramids, etc., to capture three different climate zones. It should be a mixture of enclosed spaces and open spaces. In addition, include some sort of public place, like a library, museum, spiritual center, etc. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 Sounds kind of like moody gardens in a public park.. Which I would be down for. The San Antonio botanical gardens feature some enclosed glass domes that are pretty neat looking. And I've always liked the butterfly dome in the museum district.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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