Slick Vik Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 By Dug BegleyOctober 1, 2013 For anyone who loves efficiency, those closed, empty car pool lanes on Houston freeways during non-peak hours probably look like a waste of good asphalt. Sure, for the most part, Houston traffic isn't impossible during those hours, but sometimes it can be a pain. It seems unfortunate that those lanes are sitting unused at the very moment four people are choosing to ride side-by-side at precisely 59 mph along Interstate 45. Michael "Griff" Griffin believes opening those lanes, especially if they were free during off hours, could connect people more conveniently to downtown. "What we're trying to do is open them up so people feel like they get something back," Griffin said. "For 90 percent of the people paying (local sales) taxes, they don't get anything back from Metro. This way, they're getting something back." Recently, however, when Metro opened the lanes, the toll revenues weren't enough to pay for the additional costs. In addition to operating buses and trains, the Metropolitan Transit Authority manages HOV and toll lanes along U.S. 59 and Interstate 45 north and south of downtown, and along U.S. 290. Along with the Katy Managed Lanes along Interstate 10, maintained by the Harris County Toll Road Authority, they make up a network of toll and car pool lanes meant to address crippling peak-hour commuter congestion. Griffin has repeatedly asked Metro to leave the lanes open until 11 p.m. rather than close them at 8. That could give theater visitors or people who want to grab a meal or a drink the time to relax and get home. Area bar owners think the idea has some promise. Anything that made downtown a little easier to navigate would help, they said. "It can't hurt," said Mike Shapiro, owner of Char Bar, a tavern on Travis near Market Square Park. One of the biggest obstacles to visiting downtown, Shapiro said, is traffic. His own commute from Clear Lake varies dramatically depending on the time he's coming in. "It is the difference between a 45-minute ride and a 28-minute ride, and for some people that's going to make a difference," he said. That potential time savings is why 970 vehicles per day used the lanes when Metro opened them on weekends and holidays between downtown and southeast Houston. Officials opened the lanes on Saturdays, Sundays and holidays during the summer, to handle traffic headed to and from Galveston. The weekend hours, run on a trial basis starting May 18, amounted to an extra 35 days of open lanes. During the trial, 33,879 vehicles used the lanes, including 2,416 solo drivers who paid the toll, according to Metro figures. More than half of the trial period's use was on Sunday, as HOV-users returned from Galveston. Officials said the ridership was more than they expected, and far better than a pilot program 15 years ago that showed limited use. Metro interim CEO Tom Lambert said he was pleased that 7 percent of the users were toll-paying, solo drivers. For the 16-week program, including three holidays, Metro spent $129,688 to provide staffing and police for the lanes, an average of $3,693 per day. Those costs were based on paying overtime and amending a contract with a toll management vendor, said Roberto Trevino, HOV lane manager for Metro. During the trial, Metro raked in $2,222 in tolls, making the openings a more than $127,000 loser for the agency. Whether it is a winner for drivers is a little harder to calculate. Ultimately, public roads aren't supposed to make money; they're intended to provide better access. The money for them has to come from taxes or fees or tolls. Metro's revenue comes in during the work week, when HOV users and toll payers flood the roads. Griffin and others argue that Metro should give back to the public by making it a little easier to get to and from downtown. The question is what cost Metro should be willing to absorb.Transit officials aren't slamming the gate shut on this one, though they've put the weekend openings along I-45 south of downtown on hiatus. If they can lower costs, officials said, they'll consider reviving the program - and maybe even expanding it. http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/columnists/begley/article/Some-think-empty-lanes-hold-promise-of-big-benefit-4858183.php?cmpid=btfpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 When you work out the math, the cost per rider/car mile during this trial was .04. Four cents per mile. How does that compare to rail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 When you work out the math, the cost per rider/car mile during this trial was .04. Four cents per mile. How does that compare to rail? The HOV lanes were built at a cost of $1 billion 30 years ago, so that amount would be a lot more now. They are heavily underutilized. The rail line was built for less money, also with local funds, and has the second highest ridership per mile in the country. Also, the ongoing maintenance costs are less than they are for highways. Finally, the IRS's per mile cost is about 50 cents more than yours, so I'll go with its assesment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 When you work out the math, the cost per rider/car mile during this trial was .04. Four cents per mile. How does that compare to rail? Well that depends. An accurate comparison to an HOV system is a commuter rail system. You'll find that operating cost per passenger mile on some commuter rail lines are similarly low. Of course this is solely due to the fact that an HOV or commuter rail system goes for many miles without stopping. Conversely, cost per passenger boarding on many commuter rail systems is quite high. I would imagine this would also be the case for an HOV system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Well that depends. An accurate comparison to an HOV system is a commuter rail system. You'll find that operating cost per passenger mile on some commuter rail lines are similarly low. Of course this is solely due to the fact that an HOV or commuter rail system goes for many miles without stopping. Conversely, cost per passenger boarding on many commuter rail systems is quite high. I would imagine this would also be the case for an HOV system. Commuter rail would seemingly be more efficient than the HOV lanes because it would run more hours of the day; also no random accidents that stall the entire lane. Also there is "rail bias." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgriff Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Why do they need staffing and police? Just open it to anyone and don't collect any tolls. Why let it sit there and go to waste? Edited October 1, 2013 by jgriff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Well that depends. An accurate comparison to an HOV system is a commuter rail system. You'll find that operating cost per passenger mile on some commuter rail lines are similarly low. Of course this is solely due to the fact that an HOV or commuter rail system goes for many miles without stopping. Conversely, cost per passenger boarding on many commuter rail systems is quite high. I would imagine this would also be the case for an HOV system. There's an assumption of demand for a commuter rail system that I don't think has been substantiated. It seems questionable to assume that if there isn't sufficient demand to keep the HOV lanes occupied that implementing commuter rail would create that demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Finally, the IRS's per mile cost is about 50 cents more than yours, so I'll go with its assesment. Is the operating cost for rail less than 54 cents per passenger mile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Commuter rail would seemingly be more efficient than the HOV lanes because it would run more hours of the day; also no random accidents that stall the entire lane. Also there is "rail bias." Isn't "rail bias" the argument that gets pulled out when rail can't be justified on a cost basis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Isn't "rail bias" the argument that gets pulled out when rail can't be justified on a cost basis? No. There is a significant segment of the population that will ride rail that won't ride the bus. Again, I don't think highway expansion can be justified on a cost basis, but it gets done anyway. $3 billion for katy freeway expansion to save < 10 minutes on a commute? That's absurd.Is the operating cost for rail less than 54 cents per passenger mile? It goes down over time. Rail's big cost is the initial capital investment. It doesn't have the gargantuan maintenance costs that highways do.There's an assumption of demand for a commuter rail system that I don't think has been substantiated. It seems questionable to assume that if there isn't sufficient demand to keep the HOV lanes occupied that implementing commuter rail would create that demand. If a comprehensive transit system is built anywhere, people will ride it. Very simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 If a comprehensive transit system is built anywhere, people will ride it. Very simple. I find it highly entertaining that you consider meeting the transportation needs of 6 million plus people to be very simple. I'm sure you're really good at SimCity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 OK everyone, back on topic. This isn't about trains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 This is really much ado about nothing because the article is talking about non-peak hours, specifically after 8 pm. Personally, I avoid the HOV lanes in the evenings no matter how many people are in the car because of the chance of getting trapped behind a slow moving car in a single lane HOV. I'd much rather have the option to change lanes. There's a reason they call those hours "non-peak" people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryDierker Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 The article mentions having a drink after work berfore driving home, and bar owners wanting the hov lanes open. just found it peculiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 This is really much ado about nothing because the article is talking about non-peak hours, specifically after 8 pm. Personally, I avoid the HOV lanes in the evenings no matter how many people are in the car because of the chance of getting trapped behind a slow moving car in a single lane HOV. I'd much rather have the option to change lanes.There's a reason they call those hours "non-peak" people.Having them no open all weekend and off peak hours seems like an inefficient use of the right of way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 When were they ever open on weekends? When I always went to Houston for weekend day trips, they were always closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 There's an assumption of demand for a commuter rail system that I don't think has been substantiated. It seems questionable to assume that if there isn't sufficient demand to keep the HOV lanes occupied that implementing commuter rail would create that demand. I think there are a couple of corridors where commuter rail would work in Houston. But the P&R system already serves many areas well. The biggest improvement that needs to be made is getting around Houston once you get in from the suburbs. And HOV lanes should stay open even if commuter rail is built along the same corridor. Is the operating cost for rail less than 54 cents per passenger mile? DART's "TRE" has an operating cost of $0.60 per passenger mile (according to the NTD), which is a similar number. Although that statistic can be misleading because it does not reflect subsidy per passenger. The same is true for the HOV lanes. It would be nice to have the HOT lanes open late at night and on weekends, and I would favor this happening, even if we have to subsidize it. As long as a respectable amount of people are using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 When were they ever open on weekends? When I always went to Houston for weekend day trips, they were always closed. For about 4 months. From 10-1 and 2-8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Having them no open all weekend and off peak hours seems like an inefficient use of the right of way.If you have sufficient capacity to cover your peak hours, then you are always going to have excess capacity during your non-peak hours. Minimizing the variation between peak and non-peak would help capacity issues in any system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Having them no open all weekend and off peak hours seems like an inefficient use of the right of way.If you have sufficient capacity to cover your peak hours, then you are always going to have excess capacity during your non-peak hours. Texas A&M did a study a few years ago where they recommended using HOV lanes for freight. I can see a lot of value in moving trucks into the HOV lanes during off-hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Are the HOV lanes even big enough (at least the ones on 290) to fit a freight truck through? They seem barely large enough for buses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I don't know. Not sure how important that is as a freight route anyway. I was thinking more specifically of I-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgriff Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Why does it cost them $100k+ to leave a gate open? Just leave it open and don't charge any tolls. Tell the staff to go home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) DART's "TRE" has an operating cost of $0.60 per passenger mile (according to the NTD), which is a similar number. Although that statistic can be misleading because it does not reflect subsidy per passenger. The same is true for the HOV lanes. "misleading"? How about "worthless". ;-) Edited October 2, 2013 by Houston19514 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 ugh ive long had dreams of commuter rail down the HOV lanes.. heh. anyways, i dont understand where the expenses are coming from to keep a gate open. i agree it seems like a waste of ROW to not utilize the lanes. the idea of freight on the HOV lanes during non peak hours is very interesting though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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