Highways really do reduce congestion

[IronTiger]

Admittedly, this is done by a libertarian-based foundation (just to show you where the bias is) but I think a 26-year study is a remarkable effort and is almost a full generation in city planning.

 

If you think Houston spends too much on transit for too few people, feel free to insert your own “I could have told you that” self-congratulatory observation here.

A new report by the Libertarian-leaning Reason Foundation found that in 74 metro areas in the U.S., examined over 26 years, transit had has no statistical bearing on reducing vehicle congestion. Let me say that again: Buses and trains do not ease traffic congestion, according to this study.

The study is a good, albeit tedious, read.

link here, Chronicle

What do you guys think? It does address the pains of widening freeway (specifically mentioning I-45, though other highways are feeling the crunch)

Does this confirm what you thought all along or was it a terribly flawed piece?

I myself think that while the power of highways aren't to be dismissed, there's still something to be said for transit. Also, our bus systems would be a lot smoother ride if they fixed the roads--Richmond Avenue in particular was a disaster when I went last week to Houston.

Edited January 3, 2014 by IronTiger

[cloud713]

I agree highways are an enormous benefit to us, and also that mass transit doesn't relieve traffic too much, but mass transit provides an excellent alternative to driving for the people who cannot afford to sit in traffic. It is important for people of certain professions to get to work at a moments notice, and the highways are not a reliable means of transportation with unpredictable traffic.

Edited January 3, 2014 by cloud713

[ig2ba]

This is so obvious that it is tautological. It is important to note that future widening in some places will never happen again.

 

What do I mean by this? Well, it was relatively easy to widen I-10 when there was so much available ROW or much of the adjacent properties were commercial. I don't see it being feasible to widen I-10 again in the future between Blalock and Antoine because of a cemetery and large, single-family homes. Widening 59 between Shepherd and Spur 527 would also be infeasible for the same reasons.

 

So adding freeway capacity does reduce congestion ... where it is possible to do so, and it is close to impossible in some places.

[nativehoustonion]

With all the high rises under construction inside the loop.  We should make Westheimer, Alabama, Richmond, West Gray toll roads.  We can get Culberson to fund it from silly government.  By then we will have cars that fly in the air like Blade Runner.   

[IronTiger]

With all that said, I agree that once 45, 290, etc. widen, there's not going to be a lot left in terms of highway capacity without demolishing all-new ROW.

[arche_757]

With all the high rises under construction inside the loop.  We should make Westheimer, Alabama, Richmond, West Gray toll roads.  We can get Culberson to fund it from silly government.  By then we will have cars that fly in the air like Blade Runner.   

 

I think you are partly joking... but to be honest I see this happening eventually.  We will have toll-tags that register when we travel down certain priorty roads (which will also see some form of zoning that will distribute larger retail along them).  That or we'll eventually reach the alternate day driving where people with odd numbers drive M, W, F, and even drive T, Th and switch every 2 weeks or something.

 

 

Also, in regards to the study - forgive me I didn't read it as I'm at work and don't have the time - does it also study a Berlin or similar sized city to Houston in Europe?  Because there is a much larger and older transit network that is more heavily used and Germany also uses freeways to move between towns and around larger cities.  I'm just curious what a 26 year study would say of Hamburg or Berlin or Madrid or Lyon?

 

[cloud713]

With all that said, I agree that once 45, 290, etc. widen, there's not going to be a lot left in terms of highway capacity without demolishing all-new ROW.

i completely agree.. which is why it bugs me so bad when they use up every available foot of ROW on highway expansion, not leaving any room for alternate modes of transportation like commuter/heavy rail. the i10 and 290 expansions both come to mind.. i mean, i10 already had a rail line (MKT) runnning along it... but instead of renovating it for commuter rail, they ripped it up and paved over the ROW. now the only option left when the traffic in the future becomes over capacity again and we need an alternate mode of transportation is to build a commuter rail down the HOV lanes. we cannot continue expanding the capacity of our freeways. its not physically possible. it is however possible to expand capacity through commuter rail (running the trains more often, adding additional cars to the train, ect).

some of you may say there is nothing wrong with the HOV lanes, which are already built.. but even today during rush hour traffic in the HOV lanes can get backed up and slowed down to 30 or so mph. just imagine what the HOV lanes will be like in the future when there are 10 million people in the metro.. they will have to up restrictions so much (4 people +) to keep the HOV lanes flowing, and even that wouldnt be enough to keep them going at the speed limit. even with higher restricitons they will probably be just as slow as they are during rush hour today, or worse... we need timely, efficient modes of transportation, especially for the employees who need to be at their jobs at a moments notice (doctors, ect), and everyone else for that matter, as time is valuable and the longer we keep putting off alternative modes of transportation the more time we will spend stuck in traffic.

ugh.. the 288 plans piss me off severely. they are paving over the entire median of the highway for toll lanes. commuter rail from highway 6 up the middle of 288, before branching off to the South Fannin Transit Center/Station would of been amazing. especially for all the doctors and nurses (and anyone who prefers mass transit over driving/sitting in traffic).. there are quite a few in the Pearland area.

Edited January 3, 2014 by cloud713

[IronTiger]

For 290, there are plans to have some HSR ROW set aside. As for 288, there is enough room in the median for an HOV lane and space for light rail (and since there would be no stops until Pearland, it needs less ROW than others)...but they don't consult with me for highway plans.

As for other modes, I think that the highways have done their work, and expanding them to their limits wasn't in vain, and unless Houston wants to do some rather unpleasant upheaval in doing a new inner-city highway ROW entirely, highways are no longer the future. On the other hand, it vindicates any arguments like if we had focused on rail corridors we would be in a better place. Although it would've been pretty cool to have commuter rail run up and down 290 or 59, if money went towards that INSTEAD of highways, traffic would be WORSE overall today.

[ig2ba]

... but instead of renovating it for commuter rail, they ripped it up and paved over the ROW. now the only option left when the traffic in the future becomes over capacity again and we need an alternate mode of transportation is to build a commuter rail down the HOV lanes....

 

Yeah, and that's why the overpasses on the Katy Freeway were constructed to support rail, so that it would be an option to add rail in the HOT lanes if this is eventually needed/wanted. I don't know exactly what they are rated to support, and heavy rail might not be an option, but at least light rail could be put here.

 

ugh.. the 288 plans piss me off severely. they are paving over the entire median of the highway for toll lanes. commuter rail from highway 6 up the middle of 288, before branching off to the South Fannin Transit Center/Station would of been amazing. especially for all the doctors and nurses (and anyone who prefers mass transit over driving/sitting in traffic).. there are quite a few in the Pearland area.

 

Pearland can't even support commuter buses, by either a public transit agency or a private entity. It is fairly sparsely populated even inside the Belt. What makes you think that commuter rail (I'm assuming you mean capable of high speeds and high capacity) would be a wise choice in this corridor? Also, where are the obvious places to route this line to the Texas Medical Center or to downtown? I don't see any empty corridors for heavy rail. Not even close.

[cloud713]

Yeah, and that's why the overpasses on the Katy Freeway were constructed to support rail, so that it would be an option to add rail in the HOT lanes if this is eventually needed/wanted. I don't know exactly what they are rated to support, and heavy rail might not be an option, but at least light rail could be put here.

 

 

Pearland can't even support commuter buses, by either a public transit agency or a private entity. It is fairly sparsely populated even inside the Belt. What makes you think that commuter rail (I'm assuming you mean capable of high speeds and high capacity) would be a wise choice in this corridor? Also, where are the obvious places to route this line to the Texas Medical Center or to downtown? I don't see any empty corridors for heavy rail. Not even close.

i remember reading somewhere about the overpasses being reinforced for rail.. commuter rail would be preferred as it could run faster (and haul more people i assume), but modern light rail cars can hit 65 which would be decent i suppose, so long as there arent many stops.

first.. 288 is basically the last remaining undeveloped major corridor in Houston. just before the last bust there were elaborate plans for mixed use developments around canals networks similar to the woodlands, and entertainment facilities and countless planned neighborhoods all along 288. eventually when the market warrants, and more major development shifts back to the area, the population along 288 will grow a good bit, increasing the number of people along the corridor increasing traffic, and boosting ridership on the commuter rail.

i was thinking of commuter rail along 288 happening before the reconstruction/expansion occurs, so that by the time the road is under construction there is commuter rail in place as a very attractive option to get you into the city faster. then more people would be willing to take the transit and the numbers would be high enough to support it. after the road construction is over, the idea is that most of the riders are so accustom to the rail that they start to prefer it and dont switch back to the highway. the Pearland town center is just off 288, along with other retail, and a few large neighborhoods in the pearland area, apartment complexes, inside the beltway.

the "obvious places" to route the line would be directly down ROW in the median of 288. they could have elevated stations above the freeway that connect to park and rides and development along side the highway. the train could branch off from the 288 median at one of two options.. at Reed, going left along the apparent diagonal ROW running northwest to Almeda Rd, before going north on Knight St, straight into Fannin South. Knight would probably have to be abandoned for this, as its only a 2 lane road, but the few businesses along it appear to have entrances on other roads too. i suppose they could put an alley along the tracks behind the businesses on the west side. if the diagonal ROW is unavailable or its determined abandoning that stretch of Knight south of Holmes is too complicated, they could branch the train off of 288 at Bellfort, going down the median on Bellfort, ala Houstons light rail, connecting to the Fannin South station.

[ig2ba]

i remember reading somewhere about the overpasses being reinforced for rail.. commuter rail would be preferred as it could run faster (and haul more people i assume), but modern light rail cars can hit 65 which would be decent i suppose, so long as there arent many stops.

first.. 288 is basically the last remaining undeveloped major corridor in Houston. just before the last bust there were elaborate plans for mixed use developments around canals networks similar to the woodlands, and entertainment facilities and countless planned neighborhoods all along 288. eventually when the market warrants, and more major development shifts back to the area, the population along 288 will grow a good bit, increasing the number of people along the corridor increasing traffic, and boosting ridership on the commuter rail.

i was thinking of commuter rail along 288 happening before the reconstruction/expansion occurs, so that by the time the road is under construction there is commuter rail in place as a very attractive option to get you into the city faster. then more people would be willing to take the transit and the numbers would be high enough to support it. after the road construction is over, the idea is that most of the riders are so accustom to the rail that they start to prefer it and dont switch back to the highway. the Pearland town center is just off 288, along with other retail, and a few large neighborhoods in the pearland area, apartment complexes, inside the beltway.

the "obvious places" to route the line would be directly down ROW in the median of 288. they could have elevated stations above the freeway that connect to park and rides and development along side the highway. the train could branch off from the 288 median at one of two options.. at Reed, going left along the apparent diagonal ROW running northwest to Almeda Rd, before going north on Knight St, straight into Fannin South. Knight would probably have to be abandoned for this, as its only a 2 lane road, but the few businesses along it appear to have entrances on other roads too. i suppose they could put an alley along the tracks behind the businesses on the west side. if the diagonal ROW is unavailable or its determined abandoning that stretch of Knight south of Holmes is too complicated, they could branch the train off of 288 at Bellfort, going down the median on Bellfort, ala Houstons light rail, connecting to the Fannin South station.

So for a TMC worker that lives in Pearland,

1. driving to the train station, taking commuter rail with multiple stops to Fannin, waiting, transferring to light rail with multiple stops, then walking 3 blocks to work is preferable to

2. driving to the bus lot, riding the bus non-stop (save a couple red lights at the end) via the HOT lane, and then walking 1 block to work?

Not only preferable, but worth 1 billion dollars? I just don't see it.

I notice, though, that your suggested route still leaves the 288 median untouched by rail and therefore available for all planned HOT lanes from Reed Road past 610 to downtown. Two transportation corridors are better than one, but only if the costs can be justified.

[cloud713]

So for a TMC worker that lives in Pearland,

1. driving to the train station, taking commuter rail with multiple stops to Fannin, waiting, transferring to light rail with multiple stops, then walking 3 blocks to work is preferable to

2. driving to the bus lot, riding the bus non-stop (save a couple red lights at the end) via the HOT lane, and then walking 1 block to work?

Not only preferable, but worth 1 billion dollars? I just don't see it.

I notice, though, that your suggested route still leaves the 288 median untouched by rail and therefore available for all planned HOT lanes from Reed Road past 610 to downtown. Two transportation corridors are better than one, but only if the costs can be justified.

1. It would be faster during the planned construction of 288. Going say 100ish mph along the commuter rail line with minimal stops wouldn't take too long. A stop at highway 6, a stop at 518 (the Pearland TMC commuter you referenced), and then straight into south Fannin.

While I completely agree (and like your idea of putting the toll road through the remaining section) that route leaves the median from Reed or Bellfort all the way through 59 available, but I forgot all about my old idea of an express train that bypasses the reed/Bellfort turn off to south Fannin, and continues down the median up to macgregor, and then turning left toward the TMC, down macgregor/braeswood before turning right onto pressler and ending just before the Fannin intersection at the parking lot where there's the cross walk bridge to the TMC TC station.

[august948]

1. It would be faster during the planned construction of 288. Going say 100ish mph along the commuter rail line with minimal stops wouldn't take too long. A stop at highway 6, a stop at 518 (the Pearland TMC commuter you referenced), and then straight into south Fannin.

While I completely agree (and like your idea of putting the toll road through the remaining section) that route leaves the median from Reed or Bellfort all the way through 59 available, but I forgot all about my old idea of an express train that bypasses the reed/Bellfort turn off to south Fannin, and continues down the median up to macgregor, and then turning left toward the TMC, down macgregor/braeswood before turning right onto pressler and ending just before the Fannin intersection at the parking lot where there's the cross walk bridge to the TMC TC station.

 

There's no way a commuter train would go anywhere near 100 on that route.  It's just a matter of physics that you need a long way to get up to speed and then to decelerate.  I think most commuter trains run around 60 mph.  Long-haul (like to Dallas) you could get that, but those speeds also require better maintenance and equipment.

 

[cloud713]

There's no way a commuter train would go anywhere near 100 on that route. It's just a matter of physics that you need a long way to get up to speed and then to decelerate. I think most commuter trains run around 60 mph. Long-haul (like to Dallas) you could get that, but those speeds also require better maintenance and equipment.

If they were electric vehicles, not diesel, I don't see why they couldn't accelerate up to around 100mph on that journey. They have fast acceleration. It definitely wouldn't hit top speeds between highway 6 and 518 but between 518 and Bellfort/south Fannin is 8 miles.. Surely more than enough time to hit top speeds. The road is also very straight..