Luminare Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 2 hours ago, H-Town Man said: No, it is fine to use the terms "legal" and "illegal" when discussing setback laws and parking minimums, hence the thousands of cities that say that something is "legally conforming" when it follows such laws. Nor is it a contradiction to say that variances can be made to legal development restrictions. As to the people who passed these laws, I did not say anything about their character and am familiar with the history. See I actually don't think its fine to use terms like that so freely. Especially when its really important whether something is "illegal" or "not in compliance". Two completely different definitions. Two completely different things. To start, I should have probably put something at the beginning stating that this wasn't a question of whether you know these things or not, but merely a general theme that I notice with others. Before going into my line of thinking on this though, by all means correct me if I'm wrong or incorrect here. I might be completely wrong in my assessment on all of this. However, I have done quite a bit of thinking on this lately and would like to share some conclusions that I have reached on this that I also think would be well supported by others. I do very much respect your opinions though since I know you do seem to carry a wealth of knowledge in these areas, and I welcome your input on this. With that being said, I place a high importance on diction, definition, and nomenclature in a conversation like this, because its not just semantics here, but something that does actually matter in whether we can work this through or not. There is a distinct difference in breaking a "law" which means you have done something "Illegal" and you in return receive enormous consequences for, and a "regulation", "ordinance", "rule", or "code" where if you break one of those then you are "not in compliance" or "noncompliance" and in return you lose recognition, or status, or qualification in some manner. An example I could give is something that just happened last week on a project of mine. Last week, I got a notice in a plan review (on a project which I won't disclose), that we were "not in compliance" for a single door which had a side light that didn't meet the necessary requirements and would be in violation of TAS (the actual decision was that it was deemed "unacceptable"). So for that one single door we currently would not meet code if we don't fix the issue before construction. Now lets say, hypothetically, we didn't pick up that comment, either we forgot, etc... The project gets built and then the plan reviewer does his inspection and finds that we are still in "noncompliance". Just because I'm in "noncompliance" doesn't mean I'm going to jail for it though, or get fined for it or face harsh penalties by the state. Instead, I get dinged by the institution with a loss of status in some way (now all of this is if I'm caught and never complied at all...very harsh though really). Now lets say the plan reviewer, hypothetically, misses the door violation and says that I'm correct and everything is supposedly alright. Down the road a month a person (who is very well understood about TAS code and regulation) goes up to the door and can't see out the side light. He/she is disgruntled and thinks that whoever built this building clearly didn't think about people disabilities and thinks I'm being dismissive against him/her. Then that person sues me as being discriminatory against people with disabilities. NOW I have done something "illegal" because I have supposedly broken a federal law (the ADA) protecting those peoples rights and then go to court. That is the difference. To relate back to setback ordinances and parking minimums, etc... Lets say in a project I don't comply with the setback ordinances. We both know why those are in place. They were enacted to make sure that fires that start in a building next door or across the street or something that is on fire on the street doesn't reach the building and catch it on fire. Me not complying with a setback ordinance is not "illegal". I'm merely "noncompliant". If I'm caught being "noncompliant" then I receive something that lows my status, recognition, standing, etc... I don't get thrown in the brig! Now if don't get caught and then my building catches fire because I didn't comply with regulations and this resulted in lose of life then I have commited murder and broken a "law" which is "illegal" and now I go to jail for the rest of my life. These thought experiments that I'm presenting here highlight why its important to make that distinction between something being "illegal" and "noncompliance". We should use these definitions correctly. The reason these institutions exist and why regulations exist is to protect us from ourselves and unburden us with the hyper details that we can't possibly think about all the time, and basically what these codes say are "look you better just follow this because experience has shown that if this isn't followed something might happen and THEN you might break a law and you will have done something ILLEGAL.....so you better just trust us and follow it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 At a recent continuing education class I was at, the instructor referred to violating the drawing standards as "illegal" so I suspect that the word has a lot less meaning to some people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, cspwal said: At a recent continuing education class I was at, the instructor referred to violating the drawing standards as "illegal" so I suspect that the word has a lot less meaning to some people. haha I mean there is being figuratively "illegal" and literally "illegal". I'm hoping this guy is using the former. Unfortunately we live in a post-modern world where definitions don't have real meaning anymore. Remember, "it's all about ones interpretation". EDIT: Correction. Used latter instead of former. Edited May 7, 2018 by Luminare 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 11 hours ago, Luminare said: Just because I'm in "noncompliance" doesn't mean I'm going to jail for it though, or get fined for it or face harsh penalties by the state. And just because you're not going to jail doesn't mean that it is not a legal matter. Zoning, as well as such things as setback and parking regulations which are typically part of zoning, proceeds from the police power of the zoning jurisdiction, in this case the City of Houston. Wherever this exists, we almost universally refer to it as zoning "laws," and developments which comply with those laws are "legally conforming." My usage in the original post reflects the near-universal terminology on such matters. It is a correct statement to say that a developer is legally forbidden to build such buildings as the existing ones on the north side of 19th Street east of Ashland, unless he/she has obtained a variance. Whether this fulfills the same sense of legality as used in other areas of law going back to the foundations of the common law under Henry II in the 12th century, I am not qualified to say. I am neither a lawyer nor a legal philosopher. But it is the terminology widely used across the U.S. today. To your point about setback laws being created to prevent the spread of fire, that is actually not the explanation I've heard about Houston's setback laws. From what I understand, these laws were first passed in the early 1980's to prevent buildings being built too close to major thoroughfares and thus preventing their widening. I think construction along Westheimer in the Galleria area was the immediate concern, but could be wrong about that. From what I understand it only applies to designated thoroughfare streets, not all streets. Houston 19514 could perhaps enlighten us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angostura Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 11 hours ago, Luminare said: See I actually don't think its fine to use terms like that so freely. Especially when its really important whether something is "illegal" or "not in compliance". Two completely different definitions. Two completely different things. To start, I should have probably put something at the beginning stating that this wasn't a question of whether you know these things or not, but merely a general theme that I notice with others. Before going into my line of thinking on this though, by all means correct me if I'm wrong or incorrect here. I might be completely wrong in my assessment on all of this. However, I have done quite a bit of thinking on this lately and would like to share some conclusions that I have reached on this that I also think would be well supported by others. I do very much respect your opinions though since I know you do seem to carry a wealth of knowledge in these areas, and I welcome your input on this. With that being said, I place a high importance on diction, definition, and nomenclature in a conversation like this, because its not just semantics here, but something that does actually matter in whether we can work this through or not. There is a distinct difference in breaking a "law" which means you have done something "Illegal" and you in return receive enormous consequences for, and a "regulation", "ordinance", "rule", or "code" where if you break one of those then you are "not in compliance" or "noncompliance" and in return you lose recognition, or status, or qualification in some manner. An example I could give is something that just happened last week on a project of mine. Last week, I got a notice in a plan review (on a project which I won't disclose), that we were "not in compliance" for a single door which had a side light that didn't meet the necessary requirements and would be in violation of TAS (the actual decision was that it was deemed "unacceptable"). So for that one single door we currently would not meet code if we don't fix the issue before construction. Now lets say, hypothetically, we didn't pick up that comment, either we forgot, etc... The project gets built and then the plan reviewer does his inspection and finds that we are still in "noncompliance". Just because I'm in "noncompliance" doesn't mean I'm going to jail for it though, or get fined for it or face harsh penalties by the state. Instead, I get dinged by the institution with a loss of status in some way (now all of this is if I'm caught and never complied at all...very harsh though really). Now lets say the plan reviewer, hypothetically, misses the door violation and says that I'm correct and everything is supposedly alright. Down the road a month a person (who is very well understood about TAS code and regulation) goes up to the door and can't see out the side light. He/she is disgruntled and thinks that whoever built this building clearly didn't think about people disabilities and thinks I'm being dismissive against him/her. Then that person sues me as being discriminatory against people with disabilities. NOW I have done something "illegal" because I have supposedly broken a federal law (the ADA) protecting those peoples rights and then go to court. That is the difference. To relate back to setback ordinances and parking minimums, etc... Lets say in a project I don't comply with the setback ordinances. We both know why those are in place. They were enacted to make sure that fires that start in a building next door or across the street or something that is on fire on the street doesn't reach the building and catch it on fire. Me not complying with a setback ordinance is not "illegal". I'm merely "noncompliant". If I'm caught being "noncompliant" then I receive something that lows my status, recognition, standing, etc... I don't get thrown in the brig! Now if don't get caught and then my building catches fire because I didn't comply with regulations and this resulted in lose of life then I have commited murder and broken a "law" which is "illegal" and now I go to jail for the rest of my life. These thought experiments that I'm presenting here highlight why its important to make that distinction between something being "illegal" and "noncompliance". We should use these definitions correctly. The reason these institutions exist and why regulations exist is to protect us from ourselves and unburden us with the hyper details that we can't possibly think about all the time, and basically what these codes say are "look you better just follow this because experience has shown that if this isn't followed something might happen and THEN you might break a law and you will have done something ILLEGAL.....so you better just trust us and follow it". So, a couple of quibbles: First, in addition to civil enforcement, there are most definitely criminal penalties for violating Chapter 42 (planning) and Chapter 26 (parking). The penalties are fines, not jail time, but they are criminal penalties nonetheless. Second, while variances to both Ch 42 and Ch 26 ARE possible, I can't think of a single project that sought and received variances allowing for zero setbacks and zero parking minimums outside the CBD (where no such restrictions are imposed). Third, EVEN IF variances were occasionally granted to allow zero setbacks and zero parking, the uncertainty involved would still influence the kind of development that actually happens. It's much easier, faster and lower risk to just propose a "compliant" project. Finally, the relationship between setbacks and fire safety is tenuous. Houston allows 3-ft lateral setbacks with no fire-rating, yet requires 25-ft front setbacks. And there are zero setbacks in the CBD, where, I guess, fires don't happen. In fact, planning and zoning standards are, almost without exception, tools to limit density, or at least to restrict density to certain areas, and are usually sold as such. (They are much like historic preservation in this respect.) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angostura Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, H-Town Man said: To your point about setback laws being created to prevent the spread of fire, that is actually not the explanation I've heard about Houston's setback laws. From what I understand, these laws were first passed in the early 1980's to prevent buildings being built too close to major thoroughfares and thus preventing their widening. I think construction along Westheimer in the Galleria area was the immediate concern, but could be wrong about that. From what I understand it only applies to designated thoroughfare streets, not all streets. Houston 19514 could perhaps enlighten us. I've been told it was a reaction to the "canyon-ization" of Woodway, but I have no actual evidence of this. I, for one, find Woodway delightful, and would like more of our major thoroughfares to look like Woodway does. Oh, and while setbacks differ between MTFs and local streets, all public streets outside the CBD have a building line requirement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Angostura said: I've been told it was a reaction to the "canyon-ization" of Woodway, but I have no actual evidence of this. I, for one, find Woodway delightful, and would like more of our major thoroughfares to look like Woodway does. Oh, and while setbacks differ between MTFs and local streets, all public streets outside the CBD have a building line requirement. Yes, the setbacks were in response to the Woodway situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angostura Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Back on topic: demo permits issued today for the Chase bank drive-thru and the two small buildings in the middle of the 500-block of W 19th. My understanding is that Chase will build on the NW corner of 19th and Nicholson and sell the remainder of the block for development. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 16 hours ago, Luminare said: Lets say in a project I don't comply with the setback ordinances. We both know why those are in place. They were enacted to make sure that fires that start in a building next door or across the street or something that is on fire on the street doesn't reach the building and catch it on fire. How does this apply to situations such as the expansion of River Oaks Plaza a few years ago? IIRC, the overhang on America's (facing S. Shepherd) did not comply with the setback ordinances (there's probably a thread somewhere about this on HAIF). The conventional wisdom seemed to agree that this was another example of "It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission." Is the architect reprimanded, or is one of those wink-and-a-nudge "Don't do that again, haha" situations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2018/06/04/developer-new-heights-waterworks-apartments-will.html Phillippi expects leasing on the 309-unit apartment building near the Heights hike and bike trail to start in the third quarter of 2019, with the building completion date set for 2020. “We are really aiming to have a building that goes with the spirit of the Heights,” Phillippi said. To achieve that look, Phillippi said the building’s exterior will use brick to be in line with the older commercial buildings in the area. A large tree will remain on site with an outdoor seating area next to it. Houston-based EDI International is the architect while Alliance is its own general contractor. The project is financed through a mix of equity and debt, Phillippi said, with a construction loan through Cadence Bank and Great Southern Bank. Building permits for $38.2 million were recently filed with the city of Houston. Phillippi said final design choices are still being decided, but overall the building will have “high-end, condo quality-like finishes” such as 10-foot ceilings, likely either plank or laminate flooring, quartz-type countertops and possibly vintage-looking tile in the bathrooms. Building amenities will include a large fitness center, pool, sky lounge with views of downtown and the Heights, a jam room, bike storage and bike room. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmitch94 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Quote high-end, condo quality-like finishes” such as 10-foot ceilings, likely either plank or laminate flooring I believe these are mutually exclusive unless there is another kind of laminate than whats in my shitty apartment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 It's a wood laminate flooring, which tends to be more durable and less expensive than just straight hardwood. It's much nicer than cheap laminate from 20 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, cspwal said: It's a wood laminate flooring, which tends to be more durable and less expensive than just straight hardwood. It's much nicer than cheap laminate from 20 years ago Yea, that's what I'm installing in one of my properties. Cost $1.49 per square foot but it's durable, pretty scratch resistant, easier to install (labor) and isn't at the cost of hardwood floors. Laminate flooring has come a long way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Or luxury vinyl. (The name is lame, but the product is great.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmitch94 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I have laminate "wood" flooring and its alright, supper slippery and loud as shit. I have to keep my dog's nails trimmed or the click clack is unbearable. It's really not that bad I'm being a bit dramatic, however if I were renting a luxury apartment I probably wouldn't be too happy with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenOlenska Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angostura Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 The size of that parking lot is heartbreaking. You could take the middle half of that space and build enough structured parking to serve this development and the former Harold's site (also owned by Braun), then develop the 19th and 20th St frontages with additional retail or residential. Instead, you have a couple acres of concrete separating this site from the highly walkable parts of 19th St. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenOlenska Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Yeah, it's a sea. I'd like to point out what doesn't come through in the pictures (though it's there). A quarter of the chase lot has a two story steel construction. You can see it in on the right in the second and sixth pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angostura Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 On 8/6/2018 at 11:19 AM, EllenOlenska said: Yeah, it's a sea. I'd like to point out what doesn't come through in the pictures (though it's there). A quarter of the chase lot has a two story steel construction. You can see it in on the right in the second and sixth pictures. I understand that to be the new footprint of the bank branch. Once completed, the current Chase building will likely be demolished for whatever is going up in its place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Heights Waterworks by Marc longoria, on Flickr Heights Waterworks by Marc longoria, on Flickr Heights Waterworks by Marc longoria, on Flickr Heights Waterworks by Marc longoria, on Flickr Heights Waterworks by Marc longoria, on Flickr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenOlenska Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 https://www.edi-international.com/broadstone-waterworks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avossos Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 10 hours ago, Urbannizer said: https://www.edi-international.com/broadstone-waterworks I like it... kinda nueva art deco... similar to West Ave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenOlenska Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 B471F110-D797-416C-A969-3B0F84F841DB by David, on Flickr 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Heights Waterworks Concept by Urban Genesis http://www.urban-genesis.com/invest/ 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angostura Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I assume this is something they put together during the bidding process for the land a few years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 ^ Yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFootsSocks Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Oh man that would’ve been awesome but I guess they would have had to tear down the existing buildings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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