BigFootsSocks Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 You pretty much listed everything lol. Hines has already stated they arent interested in a redevelopment.What's that in the sky? It's a bird! It's a plane! No! It's....the joke! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 You guys imagination runs wild on here. lol. It would be cool if they built a twin of Chase Tower on this lot. Then we could have our own mini version of the old WTC. They look similar, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstar Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 My personal preference (not based on any market realities) is that if they decide to clear this lot to develop something, that something should be notable, either 70+ stories or at least a compelling design. Because of the prime location and the fact they are demolishing historical structures, a 30 story glass box would be very disappointing. Again, not based on reality, Houston does that kind of stuff all the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmitch94 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I agree with the people that say this will take 10 years or more to be built out fully, but I do expect it to be pretty impressive based off location and the price they had to pay to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Maybe it's just me but I'm failing to see what makes this as prime a site as others are hyping it up to be.. It's nice, yeah.. On the northern edge of the corporate zone of downtown.. But it's not on a light rail line, or fronting a park. There are a handful of downtown sites I can think of that are more prime than this one? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The included half-block parking garage is corner to the park. There's a parking lot block between this site and the park, so it seems closer to the park than it is. It isn't on the light rail, but it is 1 block from the southbound Preston station. Also that included garage is ugly. One of the less attractive ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstar Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Maybe it's just me but I'm failing to see what makes this as prime a site as others are hyping it up to be.. It's nice, yeah.. On the northern edge of the corporate zone of downtown.. But it's not on a light rail line, or fronting a park. There are a handful of downtown sites I can think of that are more prime than this one? That begs the question, why did they snatch up this location so quickly after the Chronicle announcement, as opposed to grabbing some surface parking lot downtown for development? They could avoid all of the demo costs, and there are still plenty of them along existing existing rail lines. Maybe it's an infrastructure thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rechlin Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The fact that it already has tunnel access is probably worth something. Also, maybe the owners of the surface lots that seem better are asking unreasonable amounts of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I heard from a friend that one of the gravel parking lot blocks in midtown was asking something like $5 million or more. For a gravel parking lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I heard from a friend that one of the gravel parking lot blocks in midtown was asking something like $5 million or more. For a gravel parking lotDepending on which site that is/where it's located in Midtown, that might not be an awful asking price? They're likely holding out for a MF developer to come in and plop up a midrise apartment complex on that land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I heard from a friend that one of the gravel parking lot blocks in midtown was asking something like $5 million or more. For a gravel parking lot Less than 1/6th of the price rumored for the Chronicle block (allocating the $50 M price proportionally between the full block and half block) and no demolition costs. . . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The Chronicle block does come with a building or two though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) The Chronicle block does come with a building or two though Yes it does. Buildings that have almost zero value and are ready to be demolished. From the moment the Chron announced the property was for sale there was very little doubt these buildings were history. In reality, the buildings are a negative value, because of the money that will have to be spent removing them. (FWIW, the HCAD appraises the improvements at $100. The land is appraised at $15,625,000.) Edited July 6, 2015 by Houston19514 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Maybe it's just me but I'm failing to see what makes this as prime a site as others are hyping it up to be.. It's nice, yeah.. On the northern edge of the corporate zone of downtown.. But it's not on a light rail line, or fronting a park. There are a handful of downtown sites I can think of that are more prime than this one? The only downtown block I can think of that's a better location than this one is if they were able to redevelop the federal courthouse on Rusk. Everything else is either not on a tunnel or has its views blocked, and I consider the south side of downtown to be inferior to the north. The 5 Allen Center site is a good contender, and the Stream/Essex Market Square site would be better if it had tunnel access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate99 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ...and the Stream/Essex Market Square site would be better if it had tunnel access. Supposing whatever is built on the Chron site requires a full block excavation, a tunnel connection to the Essex block would just be a matter of crossing Prairie at the right spot to join up with the basement of the new building here. I suppose Hines could design out any connectivity to that block if they wanted to be jerks about it and harm any future competition, but that seems unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobruss Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) I suppose Hines could design out any connectivity to that block if they wanted to be jerks about it and harm any future competition, but that seems unlikely. I don't think that's how Gerald Hines operates. He's more concerned about the quality of life for this city. He understands the dynamics of the tunnels and what they mean to the overall workings of downtown. Edited July 7, 2015 by bobruss 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) I suppose Hines could design out any connectivity to that block if they wanted to be jerks about it and harm any future competition, but that seems unlikely.I don't think that's how Gerald Hines operates. He's more concerned about the quality of life for this city.He understands the dynamics of the tunnels and what they mean to the overall workings of downtown. Agreed. Hines buildings connect up, period. The sole exception I can think of was the rumor floating at the time that the reason Heritage didn't have any connections (the gerbil tube came way later) was because various major surrounding developers thought putting up that building at that time was a very, very bad idea. They turned out to be correct, since it ended up being a see through for several years. Edit: To be clear, Hines didn't develop Heritage, but was one of those in on surrounding property. Edited July 7, 2015 by mollusk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The only downtown block I can think of that's a better location than this one is if they were able to redevelop the federal courthouse on Rusk. Everything else is either not on a tunnel or has its views blocked, and I consider the south side of downtown to be inferior to the north. The 5 Allen Center site is a good contender, and the Stream/Essex Market Square site would be better if it had tunnel access. It does have blocked views, but the McKinney/Milam/Walker/Louisiana block (where the Bank of the Southwest Tower wasn't built) would still be my choice for a high-profile development. It would have tunnel connections from four directions, which would make it a natural hub. The Chronicle block is close to the end of a tunnel, so it doesn't draw much foot traffic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 It does have blocked views, but the McKinney/Milam/Walker/Louisiana block (where the Bank of the Southwest Tower wasn't built) would still be my choice for a high-profile development. It would have tunnel connections from four directions, which would make it a natural hub. The Chronicle block is close to the end of a tunnel, so it doesn't draw much foot traffic. I thought of that one but it seems like you'd have to build something of the scale of Bank of the Southwest to get out of the shadows. But yeah, for a supertall, I would think that one is the best, or maybe Skanska. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timoric Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) - Edited July 9, 2019 by Timoric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate99 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I suppose Hines could design out any connectivity to that block if they wanted to be jerks about it and harm any future competition, but that seems unlikely.I don't think that's how Gerald Hines operates. He's more concerned about the quality of life for this city.He understands the dynamics of the tunnels and what they mean to the overall workings of downtown. Yeah, that's why I thought it unlikely, given what I've read here about Hines and its tunnel ethos. It doesn't look like it based on the foundation, but you have to wonder if a future tunnel connected Essex/Stream block building could reach across Travis and connect with Hines' Market Square residential tower. It would be the first tunnel connected residential that I could think of, apart from the Four Seasons, if you count that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryDierker Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yeah, that's why I thought it unlikely, given what I've read here about Hines and its tunnel ethos. It doesn't look like it based on the foundation, but you have to wonder if a future tunnel connected Essex/Stream block building could reach across Travis and connect with Hines' Market Square residential tower. It would be the first tunnel connected residential that I could think of, apart from the Four Seasons, if you count that. Doesn't St. Germain have a tunnel connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If the tunnel map can be believed, there's no tunnel on that blockhttp://www.downtownhouston.org/site_media/uploads/attachments/2015-02-09/Buildings_Streets_Tunnels-DDMAP2015-2.pdf Commerce towers is over a tunnel - don't know if its accessible to the residents. Same with Kirby lofts. Surprised OPP wasn't connected up to 4 Houston center and thus give workers an A/C walk to work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbates2 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Commerce towers does appear to be accessible to residents. To get to the tunnels in the CVS at Kirby lofts you have to exit the building and walk through the vagrant mine field for about 30 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate99 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If the tunnel map can be believed, there's no tunnel on that blockhttp://www.downtownhouston.org/site_media/uploads/attachments/2015-02-09/Buildings_Streets_Tunnels-DDMAP2015-2.pdf Commerce towers is over a tunnel - don't know if its accessible to the residents. Same with Kirby lofts. Surprised OPP wasn't connected up to 4 Houston center and thus give workers an A/C walk to work Forgot about Commerce Tower, they do indeed sit on top of the jink in the tunnels between Beck's and Rajin Cajun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 It would be amazing if either whatever gets built on the International Tower block has a Skanska Capitol Tower esque lobby open to the tunnels or if they could extend the tunnel beyond the I.T. block directly to the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I thought of that one but it seems like you'd have to build something of the scale of Bank of the Southwest to get out of the shadows. But yeah, for a supertall, I would think that one is the best, or maybe Skanska.Yep, both of those blocks. The fact that the Skanska plot is straddled by the new light rail lines and in the heart of the corporate district, that would be my pick for most prime site (at least in terms of offices). Not sure if Bayou Place has tunnel connectivity but obviously they want to redevelop that into a few components, including a major office tower, and it's on the light rail line basically with direct access to the buffalo bayou trails system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 With discussions of a super tall, here are a few questions and observations. What real variables need to be in place for a supertall to be built besides ego? Scarcity and a need, right?I propose a supertall could possibly be built in downtown sooner than we might think.Conventional wisdom says when downtown blocks are scarce is when it could happen.However, I propose that when the "skyline" district options are scarce is when we could get one because that area is where the real office value is.Maybe the east side of downtown or the area on Dallas changes where office value is and changed my scenario. Plus, I think what gives us the best chance of a supertall is an area that needs multiple uses but is low on options. I think Aessandra could have been perfect, but I guess the market conditions also need to be right too.Thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 great analysis Lockmat.. i thought it would be cool to make a supertall on the 1111 Main/Sakowitz half block.. (i think it even has the fabled tunnel connection through the neighboring office tower) would make for a hell of an anchor to our retail district, kind of like the planned Nordstrom(?) Tower in NYC, and could have multiple components (retail/department store, automated garage, boutique office, hotel, residential) to appease the multifaceted needs of that location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'll add another car to this derailment.The last super tall we know of that had a rendering come to light was in Uptown, so scarcity of Downtown blocks (which won't happen for a while) is not a big deal. So, there are many factors and options. It will come down to the right demand and development to hold a crown of tallest in the city, state, or even west of the Mississippi. I'm sure Hines' latest tower could have easily become this, but would probably require the purchasing of another block solely for additional parking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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