editor Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I can talk on a phone, and drive, in exactly the same manner and fashion as if I were not on it at all.How do you know this? We've all seen people yapping on the phone on a freeway who weave around and don't even realize they're not in their own lane anymore. Perhaps one of us has even seen YOU doing it.Again, how do you know that the phone doesn't impair your driving? You're likely just oblivious to your own weaving. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I have found that I am able to drive drunk just as well as I can sober. I know this for a fact. The studies are wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgriff Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I also want a ban on cell phone use in bathrooms. If you can't wait until you get out of the stall to talk to your wife you've got problems. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Cell phone use while driving is banned in many countries already. All the studies from Europe as well as the US show that cell phone use, even hands free cell phone use is a major problem. It's not so much that it's a distraction like a passenger or having kids in the car - there's a lot more cognitive processing involved in a cell phone conversation than just yelling at your brats in the back. Partly this is down to the lack of visual clues and body language, partly that the guy on the other end of the phone doesn't see the truck that just cut you off - if you have a passenger, they will mostly see the same road situation you do, and break off the conversation leaving you free to deal with it. The surprising result is that hands free isn't much better - and that's because the data processing going on is much the same, minus a small component for motor skills in holding a phone to your ear. Redscare had it right - I can drink drive too, no problem. Until the one time that something does happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Yall must have some kind of attention deficit problem...I can talk on a phone, and drive, in exactly the same manner and fashion as if I were not on it at all. If Im not on the phone Im listening to the radio, paying the same amount of attention to it, as I would be a person on the phone. It does not take one single bit more of concentration (for me) to be on the phone than it does to talk to a person in the car, which I also do when I have a passenger. As I said in the first 2 responses, I use my hands free blue tooth - and I never text, or dial the phone while driving....heck I dont even dial when Im not using the bluetooth...its just easier to say, call (insert name here) than it is to look the number up and dial it. I have seen the studies, they all show that texting is the same as drinking and driving, not talking with a blue tooth device, and I don't disagree with that - its almost impossible to text and drive...heck its difficult to just text with how small the keys on the phones have gotten. But if your not holding the phone, which I dont, I do not see at all, how your driving is effected unless your just old and slow. Like it or not, I am confident in my ability to drive while I talk on the phone - your opinion, or a stupid law to grab money is not going to change that.And study or no study, I still think a person in the car is a larger distraction than a hands free phone ever could be. A baby is constantly requiring attention, a toddler is worse, a young child is screaming, spilling, unbuckling, fighting,etc... teenagers do whatever it is that they do now, and normal adults talk - they talk about the same things they would talk about if they were on the phone, so there is no difference there. The difference between having a passenger and being on the phone is that you have the added distraction of the persons movements, and emotions, but a slight advantage in a second set of eyes.To me all the studies show is that some people cant do both safely - I know I can. I can also handle a gun safely - Im sure its the same groups of people who are out to save us from ourselves that dont want cell phone in cars, also dont want people to have guns. Its all a money grab in the name of safety - and its very difficult for a politician to stand up and say he is not for safety, let alone the extra money it brings. It may sound like Im some cocky punk kid who thinks the rules dont apply to him, but thats not the case - I know my driving abilities, I don't speed, I don't drive aggressively, and I do a whole lot of coasting... for me (maybe not you) its not distracting or difficult to talk and drive, and I suspect its not for a huge problem for alot of folks. Its just the politicians out to govern all us to protect us from those who probably should not be driving anyway.Pssst.....this law does not apply to you. Texas - House Bill 55 - Provides that an operator may not use a wireless communication device while operating a motor vehicle within a school crossing zone unless the wireless communication device is used with a hands-free device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksmu Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 How do you know this? We've all seen people yapping on the phone on a freeway who weave around and don't even realize they're not in their own lane anymore. Perhaps one of us has even seen YOU doing it.Again, how do you know that the phone doesn't impair your driving? You're likely just oblivious to your own weaving.I'm not dumb, I can see your point, but I can assure you with absolutely no proof whatsoever to back it up that I am one of the most defensive drivers on the road - Ever since I got a big truck that does not stop or start quickly, cannot weave in and out of traffic and keep up with the quick starts and stops of traffic, I have become content to be the guy who stays mostly in one lane, gets cut off frequently and coast to the lights....it does not take many $500/mo gas bills when diesel was $5.40/gallon, and your getting 18mpg to completely change your driving habits. I'm not saying I have never been distracted by the phone- I have had my battery start to die or something, and that has been a distraction, but I pay alot of attention to my driving and more importantly to those driving around me, and my record reflects it. No accidents since I was 16 (13 yrs) and I have not even been pulled over since I was 20. I seldom speed, and in a truck like mine flying over the heights oh so wonderfully smooth roads would do nothing more than spill everything in my truck everywhere. Im not saying everyone can drive just as safely on the phone, but I am confident I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm not dumb, I can see your point, but I can assure you with absolutely no proof whatsoever to back it up that I am one of the most defensive drivers on the road - Ever since I got a big truck that does not stop or start quickly, cannot weave in and out of traffic and keep up with the quick starts and stops of traffic, I have become content to be the guy who stays mostly in one lane, gets cut off frequently and coast to the lights....it does not take many $500/mo gas bills when diesel was $5.40/gallon, and your getting 18mpg to completely change your driving habits. I'm not saying I have never been distracted by the phone- I have had my battery start to die or something, and that has been a distraction, but I pay alot of attention to my driving and more importantly to those driving around me, and my record reflects it. No accidents since I was 16 (13 yrs) and I have not even been pulled over since I was 20. I seldom speed, and in a truck like mine flying over the heights oh so wonderfully smooth roads would do nothing more than spill everything in my truck everywhere. Im not saying everyone can drive just as safely on the phone, but I am confident I can. "Famous last words." The problem is everyone thinks they are better drivers than the rest of the world, and the brain wiring that makes other people drive the equivalent of being drunk while driving and talking on the phone somehow just isn't present in them. Jeez buddy, wake up and smell the coffee. It is EXACTLY because of people like you that believe they are special human beings that we need more laws. The hands-free device thing is a bit of a cop out as well. Studies consistently show that they don't make a difference safety-wise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksmu Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) "Famous last words." The problem is everyone thinks they are better drivers than the rest of the world, and the brain wiring that makes other people drive the equivalent of being drunk while driving and talking on the phone somehow just isn't present in them. Jeez buddy, wake up and smell the coffee. It is EXACTLY because of people like you that believe they are special human beings that we need more laws. The hands-free device thing is a bit of a cop out as well. Studies consistently show that they don't make a difference safety-wise. If you can't safely drive and talk please by all means do not, your just a danger to everybody else out there - but I can do it safely, I've done it safely for years, I do it safely daily, and I am confident that I can continue do it safely in the future, and I don't need a study, a politician, a cop, or any other person who thinks more laws and more regulations are the answer to all our problems to tell me not to do it. More rules, regulations, laws and more of a police state are not the answer to our problems. Why don't we put in mandatory breathylzers in cars, and stop checks and road blocks everywhere to check for everything? I had an open bottle of wine in my car this morning from a dinner party last night...I guess I should have been hauled in and gotten an open container violation at the local road block this morning...Its ridiculous. Everyone here seems so willing to give away all of their freedoms for more "protection", its a weak spineless stance on life... At least with this law I can happily ignore it and go about my day and there isnt anything anyone else can do about it...this will definitely be a law I ignore if it progresses past the hands free restriction. Besides I dont trust the studies at all- for every study that takes one particular side I can find 3 that take the other side. All the "studies" now a days, come with a predetermined outcome that the "researchers" are looking for anyway. Global warming...I mean "climate change" is a great example; there are countless studies that say global warming is a myth, and just as many that say its a fact. All are based on "facts" and "experts" Edited July 30, 2009 by Marksmu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Actually, these studies are not quite as complicated as determining global climate change. They are pretty much as simple as having someone talk on a phone while sitting in front of a simulated driving machine. They then measure the difference in reaction time for a distracted driver from an undistracted one. What they find is that the level of involvement in the phone conversation dictates the level of distraction of the driver. Now, if what you are trying to say is that you really don't listen to anything that your wife and your mom says, not only would that be very believable, but would make you a less distracted driver. Not that it matters. I already steer way clear of drivers of oversized vehicles anyway, due to their apparent belief that they alone own the road. The fact that I now know that many of these drivers think that their reaction time while discussing what to eat for dinner is the same as when the phone is off gives me just one more reason to steer clear of them.Here's a suggestion. In return for your "freedom" to talk thanksgiving turkey with your mum while driving a 9,000 truck, how about we make accidents involving cell phones the same level of crime as accidents while drunk. As long as I get the satisfaction of watching you play jailhouse lawyer for 20 years for running over someone, I can live with you phoning while driving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Besides I dont trust the studies at all- for every study that takes one particular side I can find 3 that take the other side. Go ahead and show us these studies. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb320 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 If you can't safely drive and talk please by all means do not, your just a danger to everybody else out there - but I can do it safely, I've done it safely for years, I do it safely daily, and I am confident that I can continue do it safely in the future, and I don't need a study, a politician, a cop, or any other person who thinks more laws and more regulations are the answer to all our problems to tell me not to do it. More rules, regulations, laws and more of a police state are not the answer to our problems. Why don't we put in mandatory breathylzers in cars, and stop checks and road blocks everywhere to check for everything? I had an open bottle of wine in my car this morning from a dinner party last night...I guess I should have been hauled in and gotten an open container violation at the local road block this morning...Its ridiculous. Everyone here seems so willing to give away all of their freedoms for more "protection", its a weak spineless stance on life... At least with this law I can happily ignore it and go about my day and there isnt anything anyone else can do about it...this will definitely be a law I ignore if it progresses past the hands free restriction.Besides I dont trust the studies at all- for every study that takes one particular side I can find 3 that take the other side. All the "studies" now a days, come with a predetermined outcome that the "researchers" are looking for anyway. Global warming...I mean "climate change" is a great example; there are countless studies that say global warming is a myth, and just as many that say its a fact. All are based on "facts" and "experts"My daily drive is study enough for me. You may be operating your phone and car safely, but many are not. Those that are not, endanger people's lives on the roadways. In order to protect innocent lives on the roadways, sometimes additional laws are required. I do doubt that such laws will deter those that are the target here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee_in_TX Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 My daily drive is study enough for me. You may be operating your phone and car safely, but many are not. Those that are not, endanger people's lives on the roadways. In order to protect innocent lives on the roadways, sometimes additional laws are required. I do doubt that such laws will deter those that are the target here. I agree - I'll put my phone down if it means everyone else has to, too. It makes me so mad when people do REALLY stupid stuff while driving (cause me to swerve, brake, honk, etc.), and when I can see the driver they are on the phone or worse TEXTING! Houston drivers are bad enough without distractions. And I would intend to agree with Redscare - I usually call my mom or wife on the way home from work, and well, the conversation ain't that involved 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/template.MAXIMIZE/menuitem.416f74e8613992381601031046108a0c/?javax.portlet.tpst=4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_ws_MX&javax.portlet.prp_4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_viewID=detail_view&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=token&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=token&itemID=71052f9b8559a010VgnVCM1000002c567798RCRD&viewType=standard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Besides I dont trust the studies at all- for every study that takes one particular side I can find 3 that take the other side. All the "studies" now a days, come with a predetermined outcome that the "researchers" are looking for anyway. Global warming...I mean "climate change" is a great example; there are countless studies that say global warming is a myth, and just as many that say its a fact. All are based on "facts" and "experts"We're still waiting.There is a nice blog entry on this very topic on the Chronicle. Link.Also, there is a book I'm currently thinking that says (and I'm paraphrasing), "Technology advances faster than the knowledge that it requires." It seems appropriate considering that, for all the technology we use in our daily lives, quite a few people don't seem to understand that just because you CAN use the technology, does not mean that you have to use it when common sense dictates it wouldn't be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Why are people so obsessed with talking on phones ALL the damn time? You hear these conversations everywhere. Just babbling on about nothing. Or the self important blowhards who are 'doing business' for the whole world to hear. I value phone time with people I care about, and I do business over the phone as is reasonably necessary, but for the most part I consider a ringing phone to be an imposition. In the car, I prefer to minimize distraction so I can drive defensively, and save my hide from all the drivers who think they're so skilled the laws of physics and basic principles of cognition don't apply to them. I'm beginning to believe we have raised an entire generation who's self worth is measured in cell phone minutes, and who are emotionally incapable of just being quiet and alone with their thoughts.... but that's too far OT. Oops, almost forgot: You kids get off my lawn. I would answer your question, but I am too busy talking on my cell phone. I don't understand how someone could possibly TEXT anyone and concentrate on the road ? Maybe that is how "txt messgng vocab" came about. So many people hitting the wrong keys while driving that it just became the norm ? Edited August 3, 2009 by TJones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I would answer your question, but I am too busy talking on my cell phone. I don't understand how someone could possibly TEXT anyone and concentrate on the road ? Maybe that is how "txt messgng vocab" came about. So many people hitting the wrong keys while driving that it just became the norm ? Nice try. It was a way to shorten the amount of keys to type out the words. The whole "word shortening" thing drives me a bit crazy. I just hope the kids outgrow it. It's more shameful if adults use it because they should be on a full keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) I have found that I am able to drive drunk just as well as I can sober.  I know this for a fact.  The studies are wrong.That's it in a nutshell RedScare. People think they are not to drunk to drive just like people think the cell phone is not a distraction and it doesn't affect their driving. Fact is more accidents are caused by cell phone use than by drunk drivers these days. I'm in favor of a complete ban of cell phone use, even hands free while driving.  One of the worst accidents I ever made when I was with the fire department was not caused by a drunk driver but a man that was so preoccupied with talking on his cell phone he rear ended a car on 610 killing two 16 year old twin daughters that were in the backseat of the car their mother was driving. Took us over 30 minutes just to cut them out. I'll bet you that guy would have told you that a cell phone was not a distraction before the accident, just like every drunk driver will tell you they didn't know they were that drunk.  If you cannot get by without talking to somebody on the phone while driving than you need serious psychological help.Here's a great article on cell phone use:NY Times article Edited August 3, 2009 by LunaticFringe 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J008 Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 One kid sitting outside metro mart the other by berryhill were robbed at gunpoint. The link below shows a video of the whole thing. White nissan. http://www.click2houston.com/news/two-reagan-high-school-students-robbed-at-gunpoint/-/1735978/21806810/-/pv9yyk/-/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwki Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Yeah, the local interweb is buzzing about it, calm and delightful gun rights discussion to follow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 From 2011 to 2012, B&Es doubled in the Heghts while most other crime stats continued on with a steady decline. Most of the crimes were smash and grabs from vehicles and stealing unsecured bikes from garages. HPD saw it as a problem of people being careless and leaving valuables in their vehicles and did little to step up patrols to catch the crooks. While it is certainly true that the crimes were preventable, the lack of HPD response has given the Heights a reputation as being easy pickings, following a similar pattern as the Midtown/Montrose area. HPD needs to come out in force in the Heights and make it clear to crooks that the Heights are off limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Your data appears to be incorrect. There were 319 burglaries in the Heights police beat during 2011. That increased to 266 in 2012, a 14.7% increase (nowhere near double). Almost all of that increase occurred during January 2012, when approximately 60 burglaries were committed. The burglary rate has plummeted in 2013, from 30.5 per month to 22 per month, a 27.9% DECREASE. Burglaries overall increased for a 4 month period from October 2011 to January 2012. Otherwise, they have stayed in the 20 per month range.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksmu Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I actually agree with S3MH the lack of response from hpd coupled with the fact that more liberal neighborhoods tend to be disproportionately unarmed makes the heights a perfect place for an easy crime or 10. The grid street pattern certainly doesn't deter either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwki Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Twenty years ago, this place was wall to wall blue cruisers 24/7. Lanier had just taken over and made inner city rejuvenation one of his goals starting with crime reduction. Things got better for a decade or so, flattened out and now we seem to be at a tipping point. HPD has definitely de-emphasized the Heights compared to the past, just using visibility as metric.  I think the problem is another signpost of political castration from the City of Houston. Until the political winds change, it's up to us to fix the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGM Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Alleyways can also pose a problem. It's easy to get in and out without a great deal of attention. HPD is a calls for service driven organization, so keep calling. I would also recommend having a townhall type event every time something makes the news. (Students robbed on 11th would be a good example) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Calling HPD really helps increase the number of cruisers you see. When we lived in Midtown, every time we called the police, we called from each of our land lines and from our cell phones. It made a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J008 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I actually agree with S3MH the lack of response from hpd coupled with the fact that more liberal neighborhoods tend to be disproportionately unarmed makes the heights a perfect place for an easy crime or 10. The grid street pattern certainly doesn't deter either. Did you notice that the victims were school children? I am sure you are aware that you must be 21 to carry in Texas, so there is no point to fantasize about an old fashion shootout. Since the victim can neither vote nor carry arms, what is the point you are trying to make?Perhaps that armed children would make us safer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwki Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 ....Since the victim can neither vote nor carry arms, what is the point you are trying to make?Perhaps that armed children would make us safer?Here we go! "Myrtle, hold my calls.....and get me some popcorn dang it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverJK Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 These were broad daylight armed robberies... not exactly the standard vehicle smash and grab of the heights. I don't think this is a trend for the area, but more of a one off group of desperate losers who will quickly be caught. I see a rather large police presence in the Heights... but I do live on a block that is sort of overlapped by two beats so we get both patrols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Most of the crime in the Heights that has been part of the recent spike has been the kind of crime that avoids any chance for confrontation with a homeowner or resident. Crooks in Houston know that there is a good chance that homeowners are armed. Thus, they are primarily doing smash and grabs with vehicles late at night, b/e on a residence during the day when no one is home, or raiding garages and porches when no one is around. My point is that when you let this kind of crime thrive, it is only a matter of time before the hard core hoods get word that there is little police presence in the neighborhood and you see a rise in more serious stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksmu Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Did you notice that the victims were school children? I am sure you are aware that you must be 21 to carry in Texas, so there is no point to fantasize about an old fashion shootout.  Since the victim can neither vote nor carry arms, what is the point you are trying to make? Perhaps that armed children would make us safer?  My point had nothing to do with the kids at all...I am not advocating arming school kids....all school kids are indeed easy targets. As are all patrons coming out of a bar, or any other place that legally prohibits firearms from being carried on their property.  My point is pretty simple really. The Heights as an entire demographic area is disproportionately liberal. Liberals as a whole tend to be anti-gun, and therefore disarmed. The Heights therefore is an easier target. S3MH's concern about crime being more than just smash/grab escalating is legitimate. Getting away with a crime emboldens you to commit another. HPD does not even pretend that they are going to solve any of the crimes in the area thus the crime is escalating and it is just a matter of time before it becomes more than just petty smash grab, and we see more of these armed robberies. The only effort made by HPD to solve a crime is to rely upon a pawn shop to report serial numbers and drivers license numbers correctly. That isnt happening consistently so pretty much everything is unsolved.  What makes the Heights an easier place to rob than perhaps anywhere else in Houston?  1. Location - its close to I-10, 610, and 45. 2. Street Grid/alleys - lots of escape routes and literally hundreds of ways to access a freeway. 3. Demographics     a) Liberals - tend to be disarmed, thus low risk of armed confrontation.      Dual income households - most households have nobody home during the day     c) Poor police presence - HPD does not have the man power to patrol the area sufficently     d) Income - Higher income = nicer things     e) Rapid appreciation means that the Heights is still more economically diverse than other affluent areas, allowing people who are up to no good to blend in with those who  are still holding onto their homes.  The Heights is great, but pretending the crime is not a real problem is just putting your head in the sand. Something has to be done to curb the crime before it truly gets out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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