musicman Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Reading comments, it baffles me how people think renovating the Astrodome for soccer is a good idea.what are the negatives IYO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 what are the negatives IYO?If the Dynamo can finance a stadium for the most part by themselves, why give them the Astrodome? Why take the opportunity cost? We can use the Astrodome for something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) If the Dynamo can finance a stadium for the most part by themselves, why give them the Astrodome? Why take the opportunity cost? We can use the Astrodome for something else.no one's going to "give" them the Astrodome. if that's the offer then i'd understand your point. and yes hopefully they will use the astrodome for something else otherwise this would be an opportunity lost for its survival. Edited January 9, 2008 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJxvi Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Renovating the Astrodome to be suitable for soccer is going to cost a lot more than paying for some land and infrastructure improvement. It would require a wider field, a new playing surface, and a general upgrade of an entire facility that has been essentially going to seed and poorly maintained for almost a decade now. It cost what, $100 million plus to renovate it in 1980's dollars the last time??? Granted that was adding structure and seats and so a lot more intensive, but thats already probably double the cost of financing this entire stadium, and many, many times more expensive than land and infrastructure improvements. As far as handing it off to AEG, AEG would say no thanks. They cant pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars per gameday ramp up that a stadium of that size costs to staff and run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Renovating the Astrodome to be suitable for soccer is going to cost a lot more than paying for some land and infrastructure improvement. i'm suggesting they pay for the dome improvements as well, not just land and infrastructure. As far as handing it off to AEG, AEG would say no thanks. They cant pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars per gameday ramp up that a stadium of that size costs to staff and run. let's just hope they can maintain what IS finally decided on. your statement doesn't sound positive to me in that aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJxvi Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Its not in AEG's best interest to put any money into the dome. Its not a a venue that can be intimate enough or cheap enough for either soccer or the primary business (concert promotions).They can easily pay for a game in a 22,000 seat stadium, thats extremely cheap. High schools can afford putting on events in stadiums of similar size. The venues at Reliant Park are a completely different matter. Just because you put on a smaller event at the dome, doesnt really cut down a lot on the number of security, operations, parking, etc people that you need on game day. Then youve got the costs of just turning the building on. The lights and air conditioning, the place is huge, its completely inadequate from a cost standpoint for an organization like the Dynamo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Its not in AEG's best interest to put any money into the dome. Its not a a venue that can be intimate enough or cheap enough for either soccer or the primary business (concert promotions).well if there WAS a primary business we wouldn't be having this conversation.They can easily pay for a game in a 22,000 seat stadium, thats extremely cheap. High schools can afford putting on events in stadiums of similar size.LOL...yeah high schools can afford it. LOL The venues at Reliant Park are a completely different matter. Just because you put on a smaller event at the dome, doesnt really cut down a lot on the number of security, operations, parking, etc people that you need on game day.the new stadium will need personnel all year too. do you think it can survive with soccer only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJxvi Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) The new stadium will certainly make the Houston Dynamo more financially viable not less. Teams that play in 50,000 plus seat stadiums in MLS are the leagues big money losers. Teams that play in 20-30,000 seat stadiums that they control are turning profits, and that includes a couple who, like the Dynamo will have to do, had to almost completely finance construction on their own. Edited January 10, 2008 by JJxvi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 The new stadium is not intended only for Dynamo games. AEG itself is a concert promoter. Most of the new MLS stadiums serve double duty as concert venues. BTW, everyone is missing one of the biggest expenses in using the Dome, other than labor...air conditioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 BTW, everyone is missing one of the biggest expenses in using the Dome, other than labor...air conditioning.yeah i think jjxvi mentioned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Musicman, how do you see it feasible to just reuse the Astrodome instead of building a new stadium. Reusing the Astrodome is a lot more expensive than building a new open-aired stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Collins Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yeah, renovating the Astrodome would be expensive and would STILL probably produce a pretty poor soccer venue. It's just a fool's errand.Devil's in the details, but you gotta admit this deal doesn't look much like some of the lock, stock and barrel deals of the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Musicman, how do you see it feasible to just reuse the Astrodome instead of building a new stadium. Reusing the Astrodome is a lot more expensive than building a new open-aired stadium.just being a dome advocate and was just trying to get more info out of jjxvi. creativity can do wonders with a project like this. but with local govt involved, we don't know what kind of "deal" we'll end up paying for. like stan collins said above, the devil's in the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewMND Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It's interesting, in the article, it mentions that AEG was willing to pay for most of the stadium, but the Oscar De La Hoya group looking to buy the Dynamo could be pushing for more public money to be used. I'm confused, I was under the impression that whether the team was sold or not, AEG would be building the stadium and would own it, so they would have a concert venue, and I guess "rent" it out to the Dynamo. Is that not the case? Whoever owns the team will have to get the stadium built? I guess that's why negiotiations are taking so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Depending on the design of the new Soccer stadium, I can't imagine too many concerts, except something like Lalapolooza being hosted there.Every single concert that currently goes to Cynthia Woods Pavillion, to name several dozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Here's some statements made by the Dynamo on the latest news. http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/r...ses/?id=3578329 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) Christof just updated his blog on the potential downsides of this new stadium proposal.makes the near east end just a little more isolated from downtown proper. Edited January 10, 2008 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 makes the near east end just a little more isolated from downtown proper.If this goes through, I wonder if it will force Metro to have the SE line intersect the Red at the Intermodal station instead of downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 If this goes through, I wonder if it will force Metro to have the SE line intersect the Red at the Intermodal station instead of downtown.i doubt it, particularly with their budget. it would most likely require some costly acquisitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Christof raises some very real issues there. Hopefully, the Chronicle got the location wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Christof raises some very real issues there. Hopefully, the Chronicle got the location wrong.Was the Chronicle very specific? I thought they just said, in between MM and Toyota on the east side of 59? I guess that probably narrows it down quite a bit once available land is considered.Anyway...Christof mentions one option being they elevate the stadium. That ain't happenin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Was the Chronicle very specific? I thought they just said, in between MM and Toyota on the east side of 59? I guess that probably narrows it down quite a bit once available land is considered.Anyway...Christof mentions one option being they elevate the stadium. That ain't happenin'.It would be neat if they figured out a way to include the rail into the stadium, with one of the stops being there. And then have Capitol and Rusk tunnel under neath. Not likely, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Yes I believe the new east end rail line will be going down these streets from downtown east and I'm wondering if this area will become a new 'midtown' and development will evolve in that direction? It may have more built in amenities than midtown because the rail will be right there and you are closer to the new park (Disco Green) which I really think is going to be more of an accelerator of growth than any of us thought. I know there are a bunch of released 'proposed projects' around the park but I have a strong feeling there are many more 'projects' under wraps that we just don't know about.Houstonians and it's developers are always a front runners and all it takes is one big developer or the city to steer direction of a district (see galleria area).Keep your eye on the area around the park in 'downtown' and the land just east of 59 near the new Stadium. The city (these days) rarely does anything without the words 'spur development' in mind and I am sure this is true of this new district which I am calling East Town. So who know when Oscar de La Hoya buys the Dynamo what the area will start to look like.I wonder what will ever come of the southeast side of downtown. You would think land prices would be a tiny bit cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) If this goes through, I wonder if it will force Metro to have the SE line intersect the Red at the Intermodal station instead of downtown.Why would they, especially if the northern most light rail alignment is the one being considered (looks that way from METRO maps). The SE line will just continue into the Red Line.And Oscar De La Hoya's group has produced some nice development. Maybe this side of Downtown may become their new project. Edited January 11, 2008 by Trae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Was the Chronicle very specific? I thought they just said, in between MM and Toyota on the east side of 59? I guess that probably narrows it down quite a bit once available land is considered.Anyway...Christof mentions one option being they elevate the stadium. That ain't happenin'.If they were to elevate the stadium, it'd almost be better to build it atop a couple expansive decks of parking where the MMP parking lots are than to route transit underneath it because transit lines running through the structure (unless tunneled below-grade, being super-duper expensive) would likely make for very inefficient use of built space.Besides:The extra-large footprint of the parking decks there would result in greater efficiency in terms of the amount of cubic feet of concrete per space;Parking capacity on that site would be even larger than at present, so the Astros likely wouldn't veto;The land is already county-owned, so we wouldn't have to exercise any further eminent domain and pay anybody for vacant land;There's no need to close streets;There's no need to have to make special accomodations for METRO's transit.And Oscar De La Hoya's ground has produced some nice development. Maybe this side of Downtown may become their new project.Are you thinking, perhaps of Hakeem Olajuwon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrLudicrous Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Are you thinking, perhaps of Hakeem Olajuwon? De le Hoya is also part of a group called Golden Boy Partners that focuses on development in urban areas.http://www.goldenboypartners.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 From my understanding, the Capital alignment was settled once they had decided to go for the LRT version. The BRT version (if memory serves me correct), would go down Texas and Rusk. I do not envy the people who have to make this work, but perhaps the LRT can pass under or through part of the stadium. Either way some decisions need to be made quickly on both sides. My only irritation about the S.E. line is the necessity of building a new station for the Red Line to make transfers easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 De le Hoya is also part of a group called Golden Boy Partners that focuses on development in urban areas.http://www.goldenboypartners.comAh, that's why I hadn't heard of them. Just about everything they do is in California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 From my understanding, the Capital alignment was settled once they had decided to go for the LRT version. The BRT version (if memory serves me correct), would go down Texas and Rusk. I do not envy the people who have to make this work, but perhaps the LRT can pass under or through part of the stadium. Either way some decisions need to be made quickly on both sides. My only irritation about the S.E. line is the necessity of building a new station for the Red Line to make transfers easier. The BRT version would have gone down Capitol and Rusk, but you are correct that the LRT is slated for Capitol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Ah, that's why I hadn't heard of them. Just about everything they do is in California.This possible aqusistion could help them expand into Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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