totheskies Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 This is a very smart project, and for one main reason, location. It is virtually equidistant from the Medical Center as well as ALL of Houston's major universities. Especially for UH and TSU, it would benefit to have some substantial development in the area, as well as to revitalize the 3rd Ward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston-development Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) This is a very smart project, and for one main reason, location. It is virtually equidistant from the Medical Center as well as ALL of Houston's major universities. Especially for UH and TSU, it would benefit to have some substantial development in the area, as well as to revitalize the 3rd Ward.you are mistaken. 200 units for condos and 200 units "intended" for apartments, which should be eventually converted into codo. thats 400 units, which is a HUGE condo deal for houston. in regards to the location, its still in a transition area...to put things into perspective, randall davis builds less than 100 units and in high profile sites. not only that but he has large floor plans while mosaics are significantly smaller. Edited June 26, 2006 by houston-development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodfella Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 skies,I'd wager a nice dinner that they don't sell 60 units in the first year of marketing that project (unless they sell huge blocks to out-of-town investors). I think Houston-dev is probably right - and Randall Davis' floor plans have gotten smaller and smaller, averaging about 1700 SF at Cosmo. Still larger than Mosaic, but nowhere near the average at his older projects or montbello. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Montebello isn't a Randall Davis project. I think Mosaic has the chance to be successful as the Houston market matures. Presales would be quite hard since I imagine the average Houston buyer might not have the patience required to wait for an unseen product when so many products are move-in ready.Also, the location might appeal to parents to buy a condo for their kids that attend Rice, UH, TSU, UST, Baylor Med, UT Dental, UT Health Science, PV Nursing, TWU, etc...This is a growing market in cities like Chicago, Boston, NYC, and others as parents realize that 4-6 years of room and board costs a helluva lot more than buying a cheaper condo. At the end of their child's education stay, the can hopefully flip it for a profit. The proximity to the Med Center also might make it attractive to foreign nationals who travel to Houston mutli times a year, although Galleria area hi-rises seem to draw most of that market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodfella Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I understand montebello is not a Randall Davis project.I can rent a 1000 SF apartment for $1000 - 1300/month - and even less in some decent neighborhoods. The cost of owning a 1000 sf place in mosaic (with 20%) down is closer to $2,500/month. Listen, you could be right, but I spend a lot of time studying this market, and I would not want to be invested in this project. Almeda is still transitional at best. Their prices (300+/SF) are absurdly high for that neghborhood. They are not anchored by either high-end residential, or high end retail - which are the keys to success in this condo market here in Houston. I agree it has a chance to be succesful - but I think it is at least a decade early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 goodfella - They may not be 'anchored by either high-end residential, or high end retail' but look at what fantastic park they are overlooking... Not to mention the views of Downtown, Museum District, The Medical Center, not too far from Light Rail, the zoo, 59 (With Greenway & Uptown/Galleria only a stones throw away)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 It's a gamble to be sure, but if I had to bet on an area of town that will absoultely take off in the next few years, it would be that section (Museum District, Hermann Park, western 3rd Ward). The housing boom is already there with new condos galore and even better, restored homes. Add the Hotel ZaZa to the mix, the new Asia House, the potential Binz Bldg and some street retail, and you have the makings of the next "it" neighborhood, only this time, the potential is there for it to stick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 (edited) It's a gamble to be sure, but if I had to bet on an area of town that will absoultely take off in the next few years, it would be that section (Museum District, Hermann Park, western 3rd Ward). The housing boom is already there with new condos galore and even better, restored homes. Add the Hotel ZaZa to the mix, the new Asia House, the potential Binz Bldg and some street retail, and you have the makings of the next "it" neighborhood, only this time, the potential is there for it to stick!Yeah, I like the investment potentials within the neighborhood too...but I wouldn't be buying new construction condominiums. Edited June 27, 2006 by TheNiche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwood Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I understand montebello is not a Randall Davis project.I can rent a 1000 SF apartment for $1000 - 1300/month - and even less in some decent neighborhoods. The cost of owning a 1000 sf place in mosaic (with 20%) down is closer to $2,500/month. Listen, you could be right, but I spend a lot of time studying this market, and I would not want to be invested in this project. Almeda is still transitional at best. Their prices (300+/SF) are absurdly high for that neghborhood. They are not anchored by either high-end residential, or high end retail - which are the keys to success in this condo market here in Houston. I agree it has a chance to be succesful - but I think it is at least a decade early.I agree that in the Houston market I would not pay the developer's prices. Resales will be a lot less. Check har.com for current prices at The Mark as an example.Some of the older buildings are definitely seeing price increases. Many of the two bedroom units at the Spries have doubled in the last 10 years. That's after they hit bottom during the 1980's. For some, investment is not the primary goal as it would be with me. Their income level allows that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston-development Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 no one is arguing the potential for almeda, that isn't the point. you dont build a high-rise in an area that has potential; you do it in established areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totheskies Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I think you forgot what city this is....In Houston, we build first, and pay the consequences later. This is a gambler's town, and that's exactly what wulfe is doing with this project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largeTEXAS Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 This project is being developed by Wood Partners and Phillips Development, not Wulfe. Wulfe is leasing the 25,000 SF of retail there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 no one is arguing the potential for almeda, that isn't the point. you dont build a high-rise in an area that has potential; you do it in established areas.so, do you feel this project is doomed? or are you inferring that almeda, in this area, is established?IMHO, it seems like an unusual location for something of this caliber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 so, do you feel this project is doomed? or are you inferring that almeda, in this area, is established?IMHO, it seems like an unusual location for something of this caliber.You know, that's going to be a tough question to answer because the area wasn't really established quite yet...but it might very well be once the apartment tower is completed. But that's a pretty high-risk possibility.Lets put it this way: if I were the lender...no way the deal would've gone through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston-development Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 (edited) so, do you feel this project is doomed? or are you inferring that almeda, in this area, is established?IMHO, it seems like an unusual location for something of this caliber. the apartments are going up but im not so sure about the condos. will they, the apartments, get leased up within a reasonable time period? i seriously doubt it. ive been wrong before and could be wrong now; however, personally, i just dont see it today. small units, an undeveloped submarket, high price per sq ft. in regards to the almeda submarket, i think they are taking a huge risk today. had there been more established retail and/or residential development, then i would envision a high-rise eventually being built there with a feasible plan. to put this into perspective, why not build a high-rise on the east side of 288. minutes away from tmc, downtown, reliant, the galleria, etc. its because the surrounding area is not conducive to a high-rise today. / $0.02 Edited June 28, 2006 by houston-development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 It seems Houston developers have made quite a living doing things unconventionally. The Spires, the Huntington, etc... all highrise residentials that sort of came out of nowhere. I'm not disagree with HD, though. The scope of this project might change eventually, going to rental to condo conversion rather than rental 1 and condo 1, as is the current plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 It seems Houston developers have made quite a living doing things unconventionally. The Spires, the Huntington, etc... all highrise residentials that sort of came out of nowhere.They came out of oil. But this isn't the same Houston as that was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston-development Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 It seems Houston developers have made quite a living doing things unconventionally. The Spires, the Huntington, etc... all highrise residentials that sort of came out of nowhere. I'm not disagree with HD, though. The scope of this project might change eventually, going to rental to condo conversion rather than rental 1 and condo 1, as is the current plan. if they cant get the presales and a lender will allow them to build tower 2 as apartments, then that is what will happen. problem is they need $30m in mez money and no one will step up to the plate... confucius say as long as lenders lend, builders build in regards to high-rises coming from nowhere, look at 3333 allen parkway. never could get 50% leased and the sales were absolutely horrific. currently on the market as apartments, again, and at a discount from previous sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuilderGeek Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 New Web site showed up today at mosaichouston.com. Not much content...looks like they have retooled. Anyone remember the prices they had earlier? 164K seems lower than they were. How could that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 if they cant get the presales and a lender will allow them to build tower 2 as apartments, then that is what will happen. problem is they need $30m in mez money and no one will step up to the plate...confucius say as long as lenders lend, builders build in regards to high-rises coming from nowhere, look at 3333 allen parkway. never could get 50% leased and the sales were absolutely horrific. currently on the market as apartments, again, and at a discount from previous sale. The developers are desperate to get Tower Two financed at this point...they want to be able to build it simultaneously along with Tower One. They think that building Tower Two while they're trying to lease up Tower One will have an adverse effect on the apartments. I'd say that they're probably right. ...seems that the developers are trying to hawk every single unit in the tower all at once to an investment fund at such a low per-unit price that there'd be practically zero margins; possibly a bit below zero. They just want to get it off the ground that badly. Sorry guys. Cannot name a source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston-development Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 The developers are desperate to get Tower Two financed at this point...they want to be able to build it simultaneously along with Tower One. They think that building Tower Two while they're trying to lease up Tower One will have an adverse effect on the apartments. I'd say that they're probably right....seems that the developers are trying to hawk every single unit in the tower all at once to an investment fund at such a low per-unit price that there'd be practically zero margins; possibly a bit below zero. They just want to get it off the ground that badly. Sorry guys. Cannot name a source. development fees are a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuilderGeek Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Rendering of retail at Mosaic from Wulfe's Web site courtesy of Shasta on Skyscaper page. Retail looks a lot different than previous rendering. Nice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I'm glad to know the Fabulous San Jose Bank will be opening its doors in Houston soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brijonmang Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 That rendering sho is purdy. It looks like they expect the area to become pretty pedestrian friendly...based on all the people, and that MOPED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Are they really going to put the companies names on the walls in front of the building? Or are those just for the rendering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I just received an email from the Mosaic at Hermann Park group. They mentioned they will be having a public ground breaking next wednesday for the "vertical" portion of the tower. They also called it a twin tower project.Does anyone know if they are going ahead and building both at the same time? Maybe both are rentals now? Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I just received an email from the Mosaic at Hermann Park group. They mentioned they will be having a public ground breaking next wednesday for the "vertical" portion of the tower. They also called it a twin tower project.Does anyone know if they are going ahead and building both at the same time? Maybe both are rentals now? Anyone?They've already got the rentals and ground-level retail under construction. They're about 4 or 5 floors up right now, but this groundbreaking will be for the second tower (condominiums).In all honesty, I'm amazed at hearing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonfella Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 This is so cool. That area is going to be radically changed. The one thing that amazes me about Houston is the size. You have Kingwood with its Harbor; Woodlands with its lakes and riverwalk (plus a skyscraper); you have Clear Lake with condo skyscrapers; Energy Corridor with its endless number of highrises for the corporate giants; Greenway Plaza skyscrapers and condos; Uptown with its ritzy self; downtown humming right along with plans of a park and new highrise condos; Galveston, gotta include our island playground, bursting at the seams with new development .... I am sure I left some part of this BIG city out. If not, I know one of you all will know. Go Mosaic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brijonmang Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Anyone have any recent photos of the development? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transit Nut Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Mosaic is having a Tower Launch Party this Wednesday, Sept. 27:http://www.mosaichouston.com/news/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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