TxDOT Proposes Elevating I-10 near I-45

[Houston19514]

6 hours ago, samagon said:

don't disagree with you. 

the claim by TXDoT that flooding causing breaks in commercial traffic and citing how much commerce was impacted is an atrocious argument. I could give two shits about long haul trucking needs through Houston. if TXDoT comes at me with the number of people have died on that stretch of road because of flooding, ok, now you have my attention, but throwing the commercial impact like that matters to locals?

that reasoning makes it very clear that the safety and lives of humans who use those freeways daily are less important than moving freight, unless I missed that part of the presentation where they talk about mitigating people getting stuck in a flooded car on the freeway and drowning. 

sorry for not coming out and just saying that from the get go, it's just that kind of a statement on a presentation just really pulls out that kind of snarky reply.

anyway, let's not talk about raising Houston's freeways, we just talked about going below grade on all of them around downtown. I guess because they aren't in a bayou floodplain, but then, neither is 59 near Montrose, and one of the most iconic pictures of flooded highways in Houston is a dude kayaking down 59. and we just saw 288 get a shiny new refresh, that goes right through a bayou, floods regularly because it is in a bayou floodplain, and all they did was add (managed) lanes. there's little consistency, so it's hard for me to accept a rebuild because of floodplain to really be a thing. I guess maybe the amount of commercial impact on 288 was less, so who cares if it floods, right?

and let's not even discuss that the commercial impact argument ignores that there are alternate routes to avoid a flooded I-10. 610 (either direction), beltway 8 (either direction), soon to be Grand Parkway.

I’m pretty sure that pic of Southwest Freeway was taken before the project was completed and that is has not flooded since.

[samagon]

when was the last time the Houston Freeways book was updated? on that website it says construction on that section of 59 was done in 2006.

the watermark on that photo says 2011.

according to this website, that section of freeway flooded during Harvey.

https://www.news4jax.com/weather/2022/08/25/5-years-ago-remembering-devastating-flooding-from-hurricane-harvey/

at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. TXDoT is going to ram this through because as was mentioned they have to spend all their money on freeways, or the money goes away. if we want to see any changes, then we have to get our representatives to change how TXDoT is required to spend money so they spend money on more than just solutions for vehicle travel.

Edited January 30 by samagon

[Houston19514]

2 hours ago, samagon said:

when was the last time the Houston Freeways book was updated? on that website it says construction on that section of 59 was done in 2006.

the watermark on that photo says 2011.

according to this website, that section of freeway flooded during Harvey.

https://www.news4jax.com/weather/2022/08/25/5-years-ago-remembering-devastating-flooding-from-hurricane-harvey/

at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. TXDoT is going to ram this through because as was mentioned they have to spend all their money on freeways, or the money goes away. if we want to see any changes, then we have to get our representatives to change how TXDoT is required to spend money so they spend money on more than just solutions for vehicle travel.

Well, I guess you make a good case for elevating freeways... 

Edited January 30 by Houston19514

[Some one]

I thought below-grade freeways were supposed to function as flood basins though. 🤔

[samagon]

20 hours ago, Some one said:

I thought below-grade freeways were supposed to function as flood basins though. 🤔

once TXDoT has rebuilt all the freeways so they will no longer impact commercial trucking with flooding, they will rebuild the freeways again because we need them to act as flood basins. we will go back and forth in this manner until there is no more concrete available.

[Triton]

Do we know the impacts on the Houston Ave bridge yet, such as when they will begin dismantling and how long it will take to rebuild? 

[Nate_56]

7 hours ago, Triton said:

Do we know the impacts on the Houston Ave bridge yet, such as when they will begin dismantling and how long it will take to rebuild? 

In the schematics of the project it looks like they will rebuild the bridge but I-10 will flyover Houston Ave now.

[Triton]

4 hours ago, Nate_56 said:

In the schematics of the project it looks like they will rebuild the bridge but I-10 will flyover Houston Ave now.

Oh wow. I didn't realize that. Sounds like biking Houston Ave will be easier now if it won't be as tall.

[twisterhunt]

Nothing new here to report (I routinely check the TxDot project page for project updates following the January public hearings)...just here to make a snarky comment that while 45 @ Main and 59 had high water hazards this afternoon, a certain segment of highway (that was right in the bullseye of peak rain per HCFWS, almost 3 inches in an hour) had no high water issues 😏

[twisterhunt]

Earlier this morning, an automated response from TxDOT came out on this project. Public comments / summary from the January meeting are now available on the project internet site. I'm not able to find any particulars on the two updates mentioned below. Otherwise, it doesn't seem like any further substantial changes have been made, extremely unfortunate IMO. Also interesting to note the comments about environmental clearance and ROW acquisition. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On behalf of the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT) Houston District, we thank everyone who provided their comments for the Interstate (I) 10 from Heights Boulevard to I-45 public meeting #2 on Wednesday, Jan. 17, 2024. The project met environmental clearance on May 29, 2024, and right of way acquisition is currently underway.

We received valuable feedback that will be considered as we move forward with the project. You can view the summary report on the notice page or by going to txdot.gov and doing a keyword search for "I-10 from Heights Boulevard”.

Based on public comments received, TxDOT has conducted further coordination with the Houston Parks Board and has incorporated two additional trail connections along White Oak Bayou. The first addition would connect the existing MKT Trail on the south side of the bayou to the proposed trail along the south side. The second addition would provide access to the southeast corner of I-10 Eastbound Frontage Road and Studemont Street intersection from the existing MKT Trail.

Additionally, TxDOT has shortened the proposed closure of the Houston Avenue bridge for reconstruction to be less than 12 months.

[JLWM8609]

Houston Landing published an article about the project today

 

https://houstonlanding.org/deja-vu-txdot-plan-to-expand-interstate-10-could-divide-a-houston-neighborhood-again/

[hindesky]

Lifting Interstate 10 out of White Oak Bayou’s floodway is poised to cost taxpayers tens of millions of dollars more than anticipated, as bids to build the project came in above $400 million.

Last week in Austin, Texas Department of Transportation officials opened bids on the project to elevate I-10 between Interstate 45 and Heights Boulevard. The apparent low bidder, Webber LLC, offered a construction price of $407.8 million. Williams Brothers Construction, the only other firm to submit a bid, priced the job at $459.5 million.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/txdot-i10-elevation-white-oak-bayou-19621686.php

[mollusk]

Nearly half a billion bucks to elevate a couple miles to the height of a midrise building to mitigate getting flooded for a day or two every few years - just like 45 immediately north of the project and the Katy immediately west of it will continue to do. 🤮

[hbg.50]

1 minute ago, mollusk said:

Nearly half a billion bucks to elevate a couple miles to the height of a midrise building to mitigate getting flooded for a day or two every few years - just like 45 immediately north of the project and the Katy immediately west of it will continue to do. 🤮

Yeah, I'd rather they just let it flood, but no...

"The price increase is not likely to make officials rethink raising the freeway."

“There is no delay or pause anticipated,” TxDOT spokeswoman Kristina Hadley wrote in an email, noting that all projects are still subject approval by the Texas Transportation Commission.

 

[Houston19514]

2 hours ago, mollusk said:

Nearly half a billion bucks to elevate a couple miles to the height of a midrise building to mitigate getting flooded for a day or two every few years - just like 45 immediately north of the project and the Katy immediately west of it will continue to do. 🤮

Putting aside the apparent assumption that if a project doesn't fix all problems  in the transportation network it is not worth doing, FWIW, I  believe  both of those additional areas are slated to be rebuilt as well.

[mollusk]

I make no such assumption.  The issue is having what is likely a more expensive and certainly a more disruptive project to dispose of a "problem" with very little real world impact.

IDK what the proposal for the Katy between Heights and the loop will end up being, but from everything I've seen 45 north will remain below grade and change from being the Pierce Elevated to our very own below grade version of Atlanta's perpetually clogged downtown connector.

[samagon]

8 minutes ago, mollusk said:

I make no such assumption.  The issue is having what is likely a more expensive and certainly a more disruptive project to dispose of a "problem" with very little real world impact.

IDK what the proposal for the Katy between Heights and the loop will end up being, but from everything I've seen 45 north will remain below grade and change from being the Pierce Elevated to our very own below grade version of Atlanta's perpetually clogged downtown connector.

it becomes especially mind boggling when you consider that if and when there is a flood that closes that road once every 5 years that there are numerous options for interstate commerce to continue flowing. BW8 north, BW8 south, 610 north, 610 south as alternate travel options when that stretch of road might be flooded. in my mind it borders on insanity.

[mfastx]

I wonder what would happen if TxDOT spent like 5-10% of its budget on public transit. Perhaps the universe would explode. Nobody is asking for some of these projects. 

[hbg.50]

20 minutes ago, mfastx said:

I wonder what would happen if TxDOT spent like 5-10% of its budget on public transit. Perhaps the universe would explode. Nobody is asking for some of these projects. 

That goes totally against their self preservation instinct.  It will never happen.

[JLWM8609]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:45 PM, Triton said:

Do we know the impacts on the Houston Ave bridge yet, such as when they will begin dismantling and how long it will take to rebuild? 

ABC 13 is reporting the bridge won't be replaced since I-10 will travel above it. Yet, they also say construction on the Houston Avenue portion won't begin until later this year. If it's not being replaced, why will there be construction on it?  https://abc13.com/post/houston-avenue-bridge-truck-hits-txdot-white-oak-bayou-project-flooding/15190696/

[j.33]

Hmmm that is strange, TXDOT's online materials still show a new bridge is part of the design. 

I also remember them talking about looking at potential long-term detours when the bridge will be closed during the public meeting back in Jan/Feb. 

Here is a link to the schematics: 011624-schematic.pdf (txdot.gov)

[wilcal]

11 hours ago, JLWM8609 said:

ABC 13 is reporting the bridge won't be replaced since I-10 will travel above it. Yet, they also say construction on the Houston Avenue portion won't begin until later this year. If it's not being replaced, why will there be construction on it?  https://abc13.com/post/houston-avenue-bridge-truck-hits-txdot-white-oak-bayou-project-flooding/15190696/

 

37 minutes ago, j.33 said:

Hmmm that is strange, TXDOT's online materials still show a new bridge is part of the design. 

I also remember them talking about looking at potential long-term detours when the bridge will be closed during the public meeting back in Jan/Feb. 

Here is a link to the schematics: 011624-schematic.pdf (txdot.gov)

The ABC13 article says that I-10 is going to go over Houston Ave. I would imagine that they are going to build something a la a causeway so it is flat. 

[mollusk]

Going over the Houston Ave bridge is one of the reasons that the entire project will be so (***deleted***) high in the air - it's got to be at least as high as the HOV lanes.

[hbg.50]

38 minutes ago, mollusk said:

Going over the Houston Ave bridge is one of the reasons that the entire project will be so (***deleted***) high in the air - it's got to be at least as high as the HOV lanes.

Yeah, Im starting to think it’s going to be hideous unless somehow the freeway can be obscured with trees?

This is a proposal (schematic below).  To your point, the proposed elevated highway looks as high as the current HOV lanes.

I took that second photo 5 years ago.  This is likely the height of the elevated freeway with the HOV lanes even higher!  Yuk!

Edited August 16 by hbg.50

[Houston19514]

15 hours ago, JLWM8609 said:

ABC 13 is reporting the bridge won't be replaced since I-10 will travel above it. Yet, they also say construction on the Houston Avenue portion won't begin until later this year. If it's not being replaced, why will there be construction on it?  https://abc13.com/post/houston-avenue-bridge-truck-hits-txdot-white-oak-bayou-project-flooding/15190696/

 

4 hours ago, j.33 said:

Hmmm that is strange, TXDOT's online materials still show a new bridge is part of the design. 

I also remember them talking about looking at potential long-term detours when the bridge will be closed during the public meeting back in Jan/Feb. 

Here is a link to the schematics: 011624-schematic.pdf (txdot.gov)

Another in a VERY long list of examples of why Houstonians should never take Houston media reporting at face value.

[Triton]

15 minutes ago, wilcal said:

 

The ABC13 article says that I-10 is going to go over Houston Ave. I would imagine that they are going to build something a la a causeway so it is flat. 

That's what I would imagine as well. I think everyone in the area has already shared with each other that this will be closed for 2 years, which to me is absolutely ridiculous that such a major connection here is being closed for that long. I realize there is Sawyer down the street but Sawyer is already maxed out traffic wise, with bumper to bumper crawls throughout the day on the Target side. This will most certainly affect I-45 traffic as more people in the Heights area will have to take it.

2 hours ago, mollusk said:

Going over the Houston Ave bridge is one of the reasons that the entire project will be so (***deleted***) high in the air - it's got to be at least as high as the HOV lanes.

And wow, are those newer HOV lanes going to have quite a view! 😵

[Houston19514]

2 hours ago, mollusk said:

Going over the Houston Ave bridge is one of the reasons that the entire project will be so (***deleted***) high in the air - it's got to be at least as high as the HOV lanes.

I don't think the main lanes will be that high.  At Houston Ave, I believe the existing HOV structure is a little above 80 feet.  Per TxDoT's plans, the main lanes at Houston Ave are to be  closer to 70 feet.

https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot/get-involved/hou/i-10-heights-white-oak-bayou/011624-boards.pdf

[wilcal]

On 8/16/2024 at 2:43 PM, Triton said:

That's what I would imagine as well. I think everyone in the area has already shared with each other that this will be closed for 2 years, which to me is absolutely ridiculous that such a major connection here is being closed for that long.

Since when does TXDOT have local residents in mind?