Let's Talk About Fifth Ward

[gingersiam]

Try looking for assets that produce immediate cash flow. I suggest becoming a slumlord and hiring a property management firm to handle the dirty work. Risk is high, but it can be quite lucrative. Alternatively, if you're hooked up with a lot of small businesses or entrepreneurial types, look at warehouses in the East End and similar other neighorhoods. If you can get even low-rent tenants in those things, the combined returns and appreciation can be pretty good.

Also remember to protest your taxes ever so often. In Texas, property taxes can eat you alive.

Niche-

I don

[TheNiche]

I don

[spiderman]

I bought a large house in Eastwood with a former-girlfriend that she's living in and I'm slowly flipping. I got an offer on it recently that I'm negotiating, even though we wouldn't be able to take away as much $$$ as we would if we completed the renovation. But even if I were to take it (and the odds are slim at this point), the money would go right back into the East End. I'm very confident in that part of town, and it will continue to do well as long as downtown Houston prospers.

Washington Terrace is also a good neighborhood to put money into, in my opinion, as are parts of the Near Northside. The 4th Ward already seems a bit pricey for my taste, especially since it has a high concentration of subsidized housing nearby. On the other hand, the skyline views are among the best in the city, and it is certainly well-positioned for appreciation.

Niche

When you mention parts of the Near Northside as good to invest in, could you elaborate on which parts you would consider?

I currently own property in Lindale Park, and have thought about venturing further south and maybe buying something closer to downtown - do you have any thoughts on any specific areas?

many thanks

[TheNiche]

Niche

When you mention parts of the Near Northside as good to invest in, could you elaborate on which parts you would consider?

I currently own property in Lindale Park, and have thought about venturing further south and maybe buying something closer to downtown - do you have any thoughts on any specific areas?

many thanks

There are certain little nooks that I'd buy up with a fury if I had the resources. Generally speaking, I think that the south side has the best potentials, especially closer to N. Main Street and Fulton. Specifically, I'd be scouting for homes and lots in the nook along the north side of Little White Oak Bayou and south of a cemetery, east of N. Main. Streets in that little enclave are Cosmos, Goldenrod, Hyacinth, Marigold, Lilac, and Jessamine. This neighborhood has topography, proximity, and good views.

I wouldn't commence any sort of development until I had a fair bit of the land within that area, though. Right now, it is just too rough.

[Guest danax]

Streets in that little enclave are Cosmos, Goldenrod, Hyacinth, Marigold, Lilac, and Jessamine. This neighborhood has topography, proximity, and good views.

You and I have similar taste in prized spots. The topography is precious in the above mentioned area, which I would guess will become spotted with townhouses before long, which will help to ignite the fire of redevelopment in the next decade.

[houstonmacbro]

Is there any flooding in the east end. I heard horror stories about Allison and I know about the floodplain maps, but does anyone have first-hand knowledge of flooding in the east end or Eastwood?

[TheNiche]

Is there any flooding in the east end. I heard horror stories about Allison and I know about the floodplain maps, but does anyone have first-hand knowledge of flooding in the east end or Eastwood?

Most of the East End doesn't on account that drainage is generally good, and the bayous are wide, deep, and/or straightened. Areas along the Buffalo Bayou as it nears the ship channel are also industrial in nature, so the impact is less when it does flood. There's been a whole lot of HCFCD work on the lower Brays Bayou recently, too, so it is unlikely to be much of a problem in the future, either.

Eastwood doesn't flood under just about any circumstances, although there are some small pockets of the East End that do get flooded out on occaision. Be careful in Idylwood or neighborhoods adjacent to Brays.

Edited April 2, 2007 by TheNiche

[houstonmacbro]

Thanks for the information.

[mrfootball]

They're just very proud of their neighborhood...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-05w69htj-g

Edited July 4, 2007 by mrfootball

[hbcu]

5th ward is on prime real estate just like 3rd ward....once they run them out where can they go? North is the only way....

[musicman]

They're just very proud of their neighborhood...

LOL. i'm sure city council would find this interesting.

[TheNiche]

5th ward is on prime real estate just like 3rd ward....once they run them out where can they go? North is the only way....

The 5th (as it is commonly known, north of I-10 and east of I-45) is a hard sell. The third is sandwiched in between the TMC and UH/TSU, each major regional activity centers, and also has somewhat better connectivity with downtown. For someone that has been in Houston reasonably long, odds are that they've cut through the 3rd numerous times to get one place or the other. The fifth is out of everybody's way and doesn't really but up against anything other than industrial facilities. Also, whereas the 3rd receives a lot of politicial support from wealthy folks in the neighborhoods that line Brays Bayou, the 5th doesn't have that kind of backing. The 5th also earned the "bloody 5th" moniker back in the 80's and has had difficulty shedding the reputation. Add to that all the flooding problems, even if they aren't unique in that respect, it just doesn't make for an environment very conducive to urban redevelopment.

The East End, 3rd Ward, Near Northside, and perhaps several areas just outside the loop are going to face redevelopment pressures and become substantially transformed long before it hits the 5th Ward in any meaningful way.

[Jeebus]

5th ward is on prime real estate just like 3rd ward....once they run them out where can they go? North is the only way....

Nobody wants 5th Ward. I'm calling it now: 5th Ward to Kashmere will never gentrify.

[VicMan]

This is probably why HISD rebuilt Wheatley; HISD figured that the 5th Ward would not gentrify (and therefore, prevennt a loss of its school-aged population).

The 5th (as it is commonly known, north of I-10 and east of I-45) is a hard sell. The third is sandwiched in between the TMC and UH/TSU, each major regional activity centers, and also has somewhat better connectivity with downtown. For someone that has been in Houston reasonably long, odds are that they've cut through the 3rd numerous times to get one place or the other. The fifth is out of everybody's way and doesn't really but up against anything other than industrial facilities. Also, whereas the 3rd receives a lot of politicial support from wealthy folks in the neighborhoods that line Brays Bayou, the 5th doesn't have that kind of backing. The 5th also earned the "bloody 5th" moniker back in the 80's and has had difficulty shedding the reputation. Add to that all the flooding problems, even if they aren't unique in that respect, it just doesn't make for an environment very conducive to urban redevelopment.

The East End, 3rd Ward, Near Northside, and perhaps several areas just outside the loop are going to face redevelopment pressures and become substantially transformed long before it hits the 5th Ward in any meaningful way.

Edited July 5, 2007 by VicMan

[hbcu]

it's going to happen once they run out of usable land close to downtown...you saw how it flooded in 3rd ward and off 288 so I doubt that's a big concern

Once land gets too high they'll start scouting other areas out...but there are more 5th ward homeowners than 3rd ward anyway and alot of folks have already fled up Highway 59 anyway to Humble and other areas...

[TheNiche]

it's going to happen once they run out of usable land close to downtown...you saw how it flooded in 3rd ward and off 288 so I doubt that's a big concern

There's a lot of land in the inner loop, and quite a bit just beyond it that is already half-decent. Most people fail to realize just how much. It's going to be a while.

And you're right that flooding is a secondary concern, but the new flood maps are now in effect, and when banks make people buy flood insurance, that absolutely does affect development patterns.

[Guest Marty]

This hood should be surrounded and then they should go door to door and a complete sweep of the area of the riff raff and relocate the good citizens . Then bulldoze the whole area. I like preservation but the 5th Ward is a lost cause.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Marty

[hbcu]

According to Sarnoff's column, 5th ward is next to go as the developers are now heading north......I knew this would come as it sat there like a ripened peach

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/busine...ff/5468874.html

These dang developers are snatching up everything in sight, bumping out the old-timers which sends them to the suburbs and causes demographics shifts as the suburbanites can't tolerate change so they go out and move further out.....

I don't know personally if 5th ward will be so kind as 3rd was to new urbanism as 3rd ward is home to 2 colleges and a little more diversity....the 5th ward natives claim their area with a little more pride and won't go away easy.....some areas you got to watch your back a little more and I don't see $300K townhomes meshing well with the home of The Ghetto Boys or Scarface....

These developments also don't benefit the local school system as we all know they aren't enrolling at Wheatley

[lockmat]

A proposed project at the northern end of downtown, referred to as the Hardy Yards, along with the potential of northside rail, will help the transition, he explained.

We might see Hardy Yards after all.

[Vertigo58]

The article mentioned HP employees relocating to Houston. They are not going to like it. You would know if you ever visited/lived in Palo Alto.

The term "Ward" sounds so dated and old, old fashioned. It also confuses younger people and newcomers to Houston. It just descibed as next to downtown? I imagine behind old Chinatown?

The Hardy Yards project was scrapped as someone described in a past East End topic? I thought the new stadium was going up here? Must be true as the other day on the news they mentioned properties going up, up, up!

How much longer will they keep Star Mission of Hope and other homeless kitchens in that vicinity? Maybe once (if) retailors move in they will protest. That will be an ordeal/hurdle.

[TheNiche]

A proposed project at the northern end of downtown, referred to as the Hardy Yards, along with the potential of northside rail, will help the transition, he explained.

We might see Hardy Yards after all.

Eventually, yes. Hardy Yards will be developed. Just not along the lines of anything you've seen to date and not by the developer that originally publicized it. Look at it as land and only land with no proposal attached to it.

[TheNiche]

The article mentioned HP employees relocating to Houston. They are not going to like it. You would know if you ever visited/lived in Palo Alto.

Whether they'll like Houston or not probably depends on what kind of money they're making. These won't be corporate big shots, so I'd suppose that they'd welcome our much more attainable lifestyle quite readily. That's what Houston is all about.

It just descibed as next to downtown? I imagine behind old Chinatown?

I thought the new stadium was going up here? Must be true as the other day on the news they mentioned properties going up, up, up!

Fifth Ward is north of the bayou, and could hardly be described as "next to downtown" given its relatively poor accessibility.

The term "Ward" sounds so dated and old, old fashioned. It also confuses younger people and newcomers to Houston.

Ahem. Doesn't confuse me.

[TheNiche]

According to Sarnoff's column, 5th ward is next to go as the developers are now heading north......I knew this would come as it sat there like a ripened peach

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/busine...ff/5468874.html

These dang developers are snatching up everything in sight, bumping out the old-timers which sends them to the suburbs and causes demographics shifts as the suburbanites can't tolerate change so they go out and move further out.....

I don't know personally if 5th ward will be so kind as 3rd was to new urbanism as 3rd ward is home to 2 colleges and a little more diversity....the 5th ward natives claim their area with a little more pride and won't go away easy.....some areas you got to watch your back a little more and I don't see $300K townhomes meshing well with the home of The Ghetto Boys or Scarface....

These developments also don't benefit the local school system as we all know they aren't enrolling at Wheatley

It's unclear to me whether developers are actually heading north. Right now it seems pretty well confined to land speculators. I'm inclined not to take this article at face value.

IF developers are able to start a trend in the 5th Ward, I'm of the opposite opinion; it will fall easily. 3rd Ward has always been a little better politically organized. As for the schools, seems like knocking down homes with children and replacing them with homes without children is a pretty good way to reduce the head count while still adding to the tax base. Seems like a positive effect to me.

[hbcu]

positive? All you'll have are massive structures with nothing left....Austin, Jeff Davis, Reagan were majority white schools at one time but as soon as the families left the area you had schools topping 3,000 stidents now reduced to barely 1,200

[TheNiche]

positive? All you'll have are massive structures with nothing left....Austin, Jeff Davis, Reagan were majority white schools at one time but as soon as the families left the area you had schools topping 3,000 stidents now reduced to barely 1,200

Is that a problem? I mean, usually the big legitimate complaint is the overcrowding of urban schools.

Edited January 21, 2008 by TheNiche

[lockmat]

It's unclear to me whether developers are actually heading north. Right now it seems pretty well confined to land speculators. I'm inclined not to take this article at face value.

IF developers are able to start a trend in the 5th Ward, I'm of the opposite opinion; it will fall easily. 3rd Ward has always been a little better politically organized. As for the schools, seems like knocking down homes with children and replacing them with homes without children is a pretty good way to reduce the head count while still adding to the tax base. Seems like a positive effect to me.

How would one find out the address to that site? I'd like to look it up on HCAD.

[TheNiche]

How would one find out the address to that site? I'd like to look it up on HCAD.

Which site? Nancy referred to over a dozen.

[lockmat]

Which site? Nancy referred to over a dozen.

My bad. The abandoned Hardy Yards site. Is that considered one piece of land?

[Jeebus]

positive? All you'll have are massive structures with nothing left....Austin, Jeff Davis, Reagan were majority white schools at one time but as soon as the families left the area you had schools topping 3,000 students now reduced to barely 1,200

I'm missing the point of your complaint. With only 1/3 the number of students, the student to teacher ratio surely went up. Isn't that what everyone wants?

The article mentioned HP employees relocating to Houston. They are not going to like it. You would know if you ever visited/lived in Palo Alto.

Once they purchase a home twice the size as their old Palo Alto home for less than 1/3 the cost, I'm sure they'll come around.

The term "Ward" sounds so dated and old, old fashioned. It also confuses younger people and newcomers to Houston. It just described as next to downtown? I imagine behind old Chinatown?

Fifth ward runs from the bayou to the northeast line Main St. would make if it didn't curve back to the northwest, north of downtown. Most consider Elysian an unofficial border.

The Hardy Yards project was scrapped as someone described in a past East End topic?

Hardy Yards would be considered northside, as it sits between Main St. & Elysian.

Fifth Ward is north of the bayou, and could hardly be described as "next to downtown" given its relatively poor accessibility.

I agree. I don't see Fifth ward gentrifying. No lofts, no studios, no offices, and no Victorian conversions. Some places in some towns just don't gentrify. Fifth Ward is one such place.

[Dan the Man]

I agree. I don't see Fifth ward gentrifying. No lofts, no studios, no offices, and no Victorian conversions. Some places in some towns just don't gentrify. Fifth Ward is one such place.

I don't see this happening either, at least not any time in the near future. I see other areas of the Near Northside, the East End, and even the 3rd Ward gentrifying before the 5th Ward. If/when the 5th Ward ever turns around, I wonder what creative name the developers will give the area to overcome the ghetto stigma of the name "5th Ward"?