NRG Park Mixed-Use Development

[tigereye]

On 9/20/2024 at 8:02 PM, tigereye said:

Why not build a replacement Astro Arena facility inside the Astrodome with the exterior walls surrounding the arena filled with mixed use development and maybe hotel rooms on the upper levels?

There is an example of this that exists. 02 Arena inside Millennium Dome. 

Would take care of a lot of issues with one project.

Save the Dome? ✅

Add mixed use development on site? ✅

Replace Astro Arena? ✅

And this still leaves the Astroworld site to be redeveloped into something like The Battery in Atlanta or Hollywood Park at SoFi Stadium

Building new NRG Arena an option for NRG Park redevelopment - Houston Business Journal

https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2024/08/23/new-nrg-arena-considered-nrg-park-redevelopment.html

[EllenOlenska]

I'll be honest, for all the talk about the great "modernism" of these football stadiums (the football stadiums especially) they never seem to me as to be built with thought of being practically useful, nor aesthetically interesting enough to have any sort of afterlife. The Greek Parthenon was used as a gunpowder magazine by the Turks (it blew up and that's how it lost some of its columns), there is the Pirámide del Sol is Mesoamerica. I suppose we have so much money and technology these huge projects are no longer interesting enough to draw an interest in posterity. It's all boring and ROI now. 

[samagon]

17 minutes ago, EllenOlenska said:

I'll be honest, for all the talk about the great "modernism" of these football stadiums (the football stadiums especially) they never seem to me as to be built with thought of being practically useful, nor aesthetically interesting enough to have any sort of afterlife. The Greek Parthenon was used as a gunpowder magazine by the Turks (it blew up and that's how it lost some of its columns), there is the Pirámide del Sol is Mesoamerica. I suppose we have so much money and technology these huge projects are no longer interesting enough to draw an interest in posterity. It's all boring and ROI now. 

considering our infrastructure is built to be replaced every 30ish years, it doesn't seem to me that anyone these days is as excited about immortality through buildings as the Greeks, Romans, or other ancient cultures.

imagine if we had a water system that lasted as long as the Roman viaducts? lots of people would be out of jobs, and we'd have to find a new way to spend all the tax money, maybe they could use it to build a new stadium?

but then we might have a current stadium that was built as well as the Colosseum in Rome, and we'd not need a new one of those either.

we'd have way too much tax revenue and nowhere to spend it, 15 lane highways for everyone I guess 🤷‍♂️

I think we're all just waiting on @shasta to give some specific examples of amenities, or game day experience that NRG lacks?

Edited September 26 by samagon

[Big E]

On 9/23/2024 at 5:59 PM, editor said:

• Soldier Field - Chicago Bears: opened 1924
• Lambeau Field - Green Bay Packers: opened 1957
• Arrowhead Stadium - Kansas City Chiefs: 1972
• Highmark Stadium - Buffalo Bills: 1973
• Caesars Superdome - New Orleans Saints: 1975
• Hard Rock Stadium - Miami Dolphins: 1987
• Everbank Stadium - Jacksonville Jaguars: 1995

And that's just the NFL.  There's no reason NRG should only last 30 years, unless it's just typical Houston lack of maintenance and neglect.  

Highmark Stadium is currently getting a replacement built. Everbank Stadium's future was iffy for years, and its now slated to get a massive, multibillion dollar renovation. 

The Chicago Bears are actually trying to replace Soldier Field, emphasis on "trying", as they consistently screw up trying to achieve that because their owners are cheapskates and morons who don't want to spend the money to build in Arlington Park, the property they bought, and whose second plan to try to build along the lake basically died because the state said "Ha, ha, no." and the Friends of the Park, who have a say in all lakefront development and single handed killed a planned George Lucas Museum, basically told them to kick rocks and are prepared to legally fight them on it.

The Chief's were trying to renovate Arrowhead, but that got shot down by voters, so now they are weighing building a new stadium, including the idea of building one on the Kansas side of the state line.

The Superdome and Lambeau are downright iconic and historic stadiums whose fanbases are extremely attached to them. They aren't going anywhere, 

Hard Rock is the only non-historic stadium that doesn't have a replacement or massive overhaul planned, yet, but it also had a massive renovation in 2015, which may have bought it some time.

[Houston19514]

And still we wait for anyone to show us a single amenity or other specific example of "game-day experience" that NRG Stadium lacks . . .

[freundb]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

And still we wait for anyone to show us a single amenity or other specific example of "game-day experience" that NRG Stadium lacks . . .

At this point I really think that their argument is just that it no longer looks "cool" 

[mkultra25]

On 9/28/2024 at 8:19 PM, Big E said:

The Superdome and Lambeau are downright iconic and historic stadiums whose fanbases are extremely attached to them. They aren't going anywhere, 

You'd think that both Soldier Field and Arrowhead would certainly be considered "iconic and historic", even more so than the Superdome in my mind. But then I remember that being arguably the most historic stadium of them all wasn't enough to preserve Yankee Stadium, and figure that no stadium's safe when it comes to the never-ending thirst of sports franchise owners to get shiny new facilities that they can one-up their peers with (as long as they're paid for by someone else). 

[004n063]

17 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

And still we wait for anyone to show us a single amenity or other specific example of "game-day experience" that NRG Stadium lacks . . .

The stadium itself is fine. The ocean of pavement around it, not so much.

[geoffbaskir]

13 hours ago, mkultra25 said:

You'd think that both Soldier Field and Arrowhead would certainly be considered "iconic and historic", even more so than the Superdome in my mind. But then I remember that being arguably the most historic stadium of them all wasn't enough to preserve Yankee Stadium, and figure that no stadium's safe when it comes to the never-ending thirst of sports franchise owners to get shiny new facilities that they can one-up their peers with (as long as they're paid for by someone else). 

The Packers are owned by Packers fans. That makes a major difference...

[mkultra25]

8 hours ago, geoffbaskir said:

The Packers are owned by Packers fans. That makes a major difference...

Yes, Lambeau Field's definitely a "unicorn" in any list of stadiums. I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon. 

[freundb]

17 hours ago, mkultra25 said:

Yes, Lambeau Field's definitely a "unicorn" in any list of stadiums. I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon. 

Nope. They renovate the stadium fairly frequently and are building up the surrounding area with fun things, businesses, and apartments. A true district in the tiniest of sports towns. A shame we don't have that here.

[J Money]

I would argue that the issue isn't with the stadium itself, but the area around the stadium. All these new stadiums (and older ones getting renos) are getting developed with entertainment districts. Hotels, restaurants, parks, MF, etc, make them interesting and dynamic areas to visit that seem fun even outside the regular gamedays. NRG on the other hand has allowed the area around it to languish, and the Texans and HLSR seem actively opposed to creating any sort of beneficial development in the surrounding area. 

[Houston19514]

On 10/1/2024 at 6:34 AM, 004n063 said:

The stadium itself is fine. The ocean of pavement around it, not so much.

 

On 10/2/2024 at 3:04 PM, J Money said:

I would argue that the issue isn't with the stadium itself, but the area around the stadium. All these new stadiums (and older ones getting renos) are getting developed with entertainment districts. Hotels, restaurants, parks, MF, etc, make them interesting and dynamic areas to visit that seem fun even outside the regular gamedays. NRG on the other hand has allowed the area around it to languish, and the Texans and HLSR seem actively opposed to creating any sort of beneficial development in the surrounding area. 

Hence the current discussions among the parties (Rodeo, Texans, HCSCA) regarding NRG Park, and apparent lack of any interest by anyone in building a new stadium.

Edited October 4 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

I remain all ears (and eyes) for the list or even a single example of amenities that NRG Stadium supposedly lacks.

By the way, we were also told above that NRG Stadium lacks capacity to be competitive big-events world.  FWIW, among the 30 current NFL Stadiums, NRG has the 8th largest seating capacity.

We were told that NRG is "easily a class below the newer stadiums in Los Angeles,  Dallas, Vegas, Minnesota and Atlanta"  and that NRG lacks a lot in regards to amenities, capacity and game day experience compared to these newer stadium. And yet we stilll have not heard of a single amenity that NRG lack; NRG has a larger capacity than all of those except Dallas, and, as mentioned above, the parties are working on plans for the area around the stadium.

Edited October 4 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

More info regarding NRG's alleged capacity shortfall:

The following 9 NFL teams have stadiums under construction or planned, or renovations being planned. Of them, only Charlotte will end up with a stadium with a larger capacity than NRG (and Charlotte's is already one of the seven that is larger than NRG). Arrowhead Stadium in KC is currently larger than NRG - both the filed renovation proposal and new stadium proposals appear to be taking them in the direction of being smaller in capacity than NRG. If capacity greater than NRG's was an important feature, surely some of these projects would be aiming for greater capacity.

• Buffalo new Highmark Stadium
• Nashville new stadium
• Chicago
• Jacksonville (massive renovations)
• Cleveland (new or renovated)
• Cincinnati (renovations)
• Baltimore (renovations)
• Charlotte (renovations)
• Kansas City (still unknown)

[Amlaham]

https://www.chron.com/business/article/houston-stadium-renovations-bond-19813311.php

Quote

Houston Texans' and Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo are ending their leases at NRG Park in 2031 and 2032

Surely, this is a mistake on Chron's part, right? Unless I missed something 

[Houston19514]

49 minutes ago, Amlaham said:

https://www.chron.com/business/article/houston-stadium-renovations-bond-19813311.php

Surely, this is a mistake on Chron's part, right? Unless I missed something 

Yeah.  Bad writing. Where did I put my “surprise” face?   The current leases expire at the stated times.

Edited October 5 by Houston19514

[Big E]

On 9/30/2024 at 9:54 PM, mkultra25 said:

You'd think that both Soldier Field and Arrowhead would certainly be considered "iconic and historic", even more so than the Superdome in my mind.

Correction. Soldier Field WAS historic. Then the idiots in Chicago destroyed whatever history it had with a disastrous "renovation" that fixed none of its actual issues. 

Arrowhead is probably the only other stadium other than Lambeau and the Superdome I'd consider historic, but it also needs the most work (the other two have had major renovations), and if its not getting any work done, the Chiefs will have no problem moving a few miles to the other side of the state line.

[HoustonIsHome]

I don't see anything wrong with NRG.

It's a really practical stadium. And Houston is a very practical city.

The only knocks are aesthetic and it's stupid to spend all that money just to brag. Sure Dallas and Atlanta stadiums look newer and more modern. They are more interesting to look at, but they all serve the same purpose.

Houston can get more creative for the next one, but there really isn't a need for a next one right now. 

Would much rather that money be spent to build packing garages and forming more of an entertainment district around the stadium. 

[Trae]

On 9/30/2024 at 10:55 AM, Houston19514 said:

And still we wait for anyone to show us a single amenity or other specific example of "game-day experience" that NRG Stadium lacks . . .

I was just in Houston for the Bears game, and Reliant definitely doesn't lack anything newer stadiums have on average, but it doesn't have some of the bells and whistles the truly new modern stadiums have like SoFi, Allegiant, MB Dome (ATL), and AT&T. They just have more "stuff" even if they aren't necessarily needed.

One thing that is more noticeable is those stadiums are more open. SoFi is basically an open air stadium already but they have wider corridors, more restrooms and concessions, etc.

Edited October 9 by Trae

[kennyc05]

1 hour ago, Trae said:

I was just in Houston for the Bears game, and Reliant definitely doesn't lack anything newer stadiums have on average, but it doesn't have some of the bells and whistles the truly new modern stadiums have like SoFi, Allegiant, MB Dome (ATL), and AT&T. They just have more "stuff" even if they aren't necessarily needed.

One thing that is more noticeable is those stadiums are more open. SoFi is basically an open air stadium already but they have wider corridors, more restrooms and concessions, etc.

Man I remember you from in the day where have you been!? .

[Houston19514]

19 hours ago, Trae said:

I was just in Houston for the Bears game, and Reliant definitely doesn't lack anything newer stadiums have on average, but it doesn't have some of the bells and whistles the truly new modern stadiums have like SoFi, Allegiant, MB Dome (ATL), and AT&T. They just have more "stuff" even if they aren't necessarily needed.

One thing that is more noticeable is those stadiums are more open. SoFi is basically an open air stadium already but they have wider corridors, more restrooms and concessions, etc.

... A lot more "stuff", more "bells and whistles" and the examples are (allegedly) more restrooms and concessions in one stadium.  And still we wait...

Edited October 9 by Houston19514

[79ta]

As Trae mentioned NRG lacks the brightness and openness of these newer stadiums; furthermore, it's missing some amenities. I blame ownership for this. One example @Houston19514, NRG does not have dancer cages like the stadium to our north.

 

[Renaissance1999]

1 hour ago, 79ta said:

As Trae mentioned NRG lacks the brightness and openness of these newer stadiums; furthermore, it's missing some amenities. I blame ownership for this. One example @Houston19514, NRG does not have dancer cages like the stadium to our north.

 

Ah yes thank you for pointing out such an integral part the stadium is missing. We need to tear the outdated stadium and add dancer cages all throughout. I mean who really wants to watch football when you have dancers right about you

[hbg.50]

As if Houston needed more drama the HBJ reports:

Janis Burke 'being forced out' as CEO of Harris County Houston Sports Authority

I suspect all the dirt will come out in the coming days...

[hbg.50]

On 10/10/2024 at 3:09 PM, hbg.50 said:

As if Houston needed more drama the HBJ reports:

Janis Burke 'being forced out' as CEO of Harris County Houston Sports Authority

I suspect all the dirt will come out in the coming days...

Prior to the meeting, Houston Mayor John Whitmire held a news conference calling for new leadership at the Sports Authority. The mayor also talked about how sporting venues in the city need improvements and the agency's lack of communication.

"The owner of the Dynamo was in my office yesterday and said we need help. The Sports Authority is not collaborating with us. The World Cup teams want to use our stadium as a practice facility. We can't get the communication going with sports authority in the right direction. I want to thank the sports authority administrators for their public service, but we come together to say we can do better. We must do better," Whitmire said.

Houston will be host to several World Cup matches in 2026 and Whitmire went on to say the city must be ready.

"We come together today to say we can do better. We must do better. We have to get ready. All hands-on deck for the World Cup. In the meantime, we'll address the concerns of these individual franchises, not to mention the rodeo. Rodeo has been talking to me for months," Whitmire said.

[hbg.50]

I'm concerned these "miscommunications" were not small and may have cost Houston getting something special from FIFA like hosting the referees or a top team camp.  The fact that John Arnold complained about HCHSA and Whitmire described the situation as "righting the ship" has me worried.