Israel

[Heights2Bastrop]

Does anyone beside myself feel that Israel

[MidtownCoog]

"That's all I can stands. I can't stands no more."

Israel

[TJones]

"That's all I can stands. I can't stands no more."

Israel

- AHH Guh Guh Guh Guh Guh !

[johncoby]

- AHH Guh Guh Guh Guh Guh !

Bluto did it.

[westguy]

The solider is dead. So, way to go Israel.

[MidtownCoog]

Read closer, Westguy. You are confusing a dead setteler with the captured soldier.

Israelis have been trying to negotiate a settlement with the Palestinians for years, but the Palestinians have not been negotiating in good faith.

They voted for Hamas, and seem to think terrorism will achieve something for them, despite all the evidence.

[MidtownCoog]

they dont seem to give a damn how many Palestinians they kill.

Why should they?

[TJones]

Yes, i think its because of the "Judeao-Christian" Heritage.

Flying over ____ing Syria, and murdering random Palestinains on the beach is terrorism too. State sponsored terrorism. Sort of like whats occuring in Darfur.

Arresting 60+ Palestinian Cabinet Members

Flying Israeli War Planes over Syria

Israeli Tanks in Gaza

all found at www.drudgereport.com

For what? For taking hostage one soldier?

Yes, the Israelis kill the Palestinians then threathen them with death if they resist. On top of that they claim a higher moral ground over a group of uneducated, caged up Arabs swaying between depression and suicide. Good job.

Israel always punishes Palestinian terrorism by targeting infrastructure. Buildings, Bridges, Water, Schools, etc - the works.

Collective Punishment is the method they use. So they target one man, drop a bomb over him, and wipe out a neighborhood.

Nevertheless, i think the murdering of the Israeli soldier was wrong. You dont murder POWs, its just not ethical. But i dont really know whats going on in that part of the world. In all honesty it is one of the ugliest conflicts of the century to a standard that has never been met before.

Of course the Palestinans are going to murder innocent people, as are the Israelis. Although, in my opinion, with Israel holding the upper hand, they dont seem to give a damn how many Palestinians they kill.

Sure Nmm, whatever you say, The Palestinians are a group of people that can't govern themselves, Israel moved out, and even set them up with few businesses for money making abilities with money donated by U.S. and Israelis, and what do they do, they loot and pilage their own people. You give them an inch and they will try to take a mile. I know what your first question will be, so I will provide a link for you before you even have to ask.

Here ya go,click on the link and scroll down a little, then choose a story.....any story.

http://greenhouses.yardhq.com/gaza-greenhouses.php

Edited June 29, 2006 by TJones

[MidtownCoog]

And if they did plunder ask questions. How? Why? What motivated them? What was the social climate at the time?

This is the textbook typical hippie tree huggin granola eating hairy pit loving liberal cop-out.

Trying to understand terrorits never works.

[TJones]

See, you are a bigot.

Palestinians cant govern themselves eh? I wonder what all these organizations are: PLO, Fatah, Hamas. I dont know about you, but if a people can organize and elect representatives by themselves for themselves, they know how to govern themselves.

I can throw this back in your face by highlighting the Hurricane Katrina mess. Americans cant govern themselves: just look at how they loot and shoot each other at a time when they should be helping each other.

Yeah, and i wouldnt trust one mans blog to tell me whats happening halfway across the world. Id use a variety of sources to reach a conclusion.

I dont know if they plundered. Maybe they did. But this isnt how they survive in. And if they did plunder ask questions. How? Why? What motivated them? What was the social climate at the time? Where am i recieving my information from? Important questions, no?

You give them an inch, and they try to take a mile? Are you joking me? ____, id try to take it all too. It belonged to me 60 years ago, didnt it?

This is the Native Americans versus European Settlers, redux.

Hate to burst your bubble AGAIN, but the Greenhouse story was reported everywhere.

Did you really mention the PLO ? and HAMAS? You bet, two WONDERFUL organizations that travel around the world selling Cookies to help raise funds for their organizations, get real, if you are gonna try to use those worthless retards to prove your point, then I will have to quit having conversations with your polluted mind.

Gaza Strip was being given everything it needed to prosper, and the Palestinians destoyed it themselves, There was no "act of GOD." that brought a hurricane to the region and destroyed it, they weren't desperately seeking water or food to feed their families, your Katrina analogy has to be the most ill-concieved notion EVER !

[HeightsGuy]

This shouldn't be considered a liberal vs. conservative arguement, and I have no problem with what Israel is doing.

I think it's a crying shame what's going on over there, but I think what Israel is doing to Hamas is no different than what we did to the Taliban. Notice I didn't say Afganistan and Palestine respectively. I think there are strong parallels between the two. The Taliban harbored and sponsored terrorists that attacked America. Hamas has for years harbored and sponsored terrorists that attacked Israel. I fully agree that Palestinians are getting shafted in the deal, but I think the arrest of the Hamas parliment is justified. We have done the same with Taliban leaders.

You saw the resolve of America after 9/11. Imagine living that on a constant basis like Israel does.

[Heights2Bastrop]

I figure it was our

[TJones]

That's right nmm, "suicide bomb them all, and let Allah sort them out !", RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT ?

[TJones]

First of all, stop attributing Christian heritage to Islam. That statement originally was coined by the Catholic Church; the Pope at the time of the Crusades infact.

Secondly your a Bigot. You do understand why im calling you a bigot, right?

First, it is called "sarcasm" go look it up. I'm sorry you don't like exposure of what Palestinian "martyrs" do to themselves and innocent people in order to try and make a "statement". Truth hurts, doesn't it, and in WHO'S name do they do these vile acts in, nmm ? What you are failing to understand is that no one is forcing them to blow themselves up. They are brainwashed into their thinking, just like you are apparently.

Secondly, you better look in the mirror before you start casting stones, no pun intended. If I am guilty of being a "bigot" for believing that what the Palestinian suicide bombers, "soldiers" do to themselves and innocent people in open marketplaces and buses is beyond ALL rational thought, and I find them to be intolerable beings, then so be it, I WILL wear that name if you feel it applies to that. That makes you just as guilty for hating what the Israeli soldiers do in retalliation of such acts, the word "bigot" applies to you also good sir.

Third, your unfounded, infantile remarks have no effect on me. I will forgive you, like a good Christian would, and wish you nothing but good will and good faith in your journey to find truth in your religion. No ill will towards you, I got nothin' but LOVE for you, nothin' but LOVE !

I do see the parallels in your pics though. Maybe if Hamas sent a few hundred suicide bombers over to China, they could shake things up a bit and bring down Communism ? YEAH, THAT'S THE TICKET !

p.s. please don't quote this big'ol post, everyone will know that you are addressing me. Thank you my friend.

Edited July 2, 2006 by TJones

[editor]

This is an old joke, so the characters aren't relavant, but I think the point still gets made. It's been a long time since I heard it, so forgive me if I don't get the details quite right.

--:--

Benjamin Netanyahu and Yasser Arafat are at the negotiating table. Netanyahu decides to start things off with a joke.

Netanyahu: "So, there was Moses, five thousand years ago, leading his people out of Egypt into the promised land. He arrives in the place that would one day become Jerusalem, and as he's resting he notices that his walking staff is missing. 'Where's my walking stick?' Moses asks. 'An Arab must have stolen it,' comes a reply from the crowd."

At that point Arafat angrily interrupts.

Arafat: "There were no Arabs in that region 5,000 years ago!"

Netanyahu: "O.K., now that we've cleared up that point, let's begin negotiating."

[editor]

That statement originally was coined by the Catholic Church; the Pope at the time of the Crusades infact.

Actually, no. Your "facts" are wrong. There was not one "Pope at the time of the Crusades." There were many Popes during the Crusades, since the crusades spanned two centuries (roughly the 11th through 13th centuries).

John XVII (1003)

John XVIII (1003-09)

Sergius IV (1009-12)

Benedict VIII (1012-24)

John XIX (1024-32)

Benedict IX (1032-45)

Sylvester III (1045)

Benedict IX (1045)

Gregory VI (1045-46)

Clement II (1046-47)

Benedict IX (1047-48)

Damasus II (1048)

St. Leo IX (1049-54)

Victor II (1055-57)

Stephen X (1057-58)

Nicholas II (1058-61)

Alexander II (1061-73)

St. Gregory VII (1073-85)

Blessed Victor III (1086-87)

Blessed Urban II (1088-99)

Paschal II (1099-1118)

Gelasius II (1118-19)

Callistus II (1119-24)

Honorius II (1124-30)

Innocent II (1130-43)

Celestine II (1143-44)

Lucius II (1144-45)

Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)

Anastasius IV (1153-54)

Adrian IV (1154-59)

Alexander III (1159-81)

Lucius III (1181-85)

Urban III (1185-87)

Gregory VIII (1187)

Clement III (1187-91)

Celestine III (1191-98)

Innocent III (1198-1216)

Honorius III (1216-27)

Gregory IX (1227-41)

Celestine IV (1241)

Innocent IV (1243-54)

Alexander IV (1254-61)

Urban IV (1261-64)

Clement IV (1265-68)

Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)

Blessed Innocent V (1276)

Adrian V (1276)

John XXI (1276-77)

Nicholas III (1277-80)

Martin IV (1281-85)

Honorius IV (1285-87)

Nicholas IV (1288-92)

St. Celestine V (1294)

Boniface VIII (1294-1303)

The actual quote that you're twisting is, "C

[editor]

Thank you for your rational response to my post. It's nice to see some civility around here.

Also, thanks for "similitude" -- I had to look it up. I learned something today!

[TJones]

At the same time you hear

- American military contractors are burned to death and hung from a bridge,

- or random journalists have their throats slit in home made movies

- or a rocket attack at an American military base killing 15 US troops

- and a grouping of other things

yet the Iraqi people dance and cheer to the news. And at home we grieve and discuss how to come back home.

The only footage I have ever seen of the Iraqi people dancing and cheering in the street, is when Saddam's statue was toppled (Live)on CNN. I don't know , maybe Al-Jazeera has some different footage, or runs the same clip ,from the staute being toppled, everytime it's "bad news" for the American infidels ? Do you have a link for these post-"pro-Iraqi" demonstrations ?

[mls1202]

The only footage I have ever seen of the Iraqi people dancing and cheering in the street, is when Saddam's statue was toppled (Live)on CNN. I don't know , maybe Al-Jazeera has some different footage, or runs the same clip ,from the staute being toppled, everytime it's "bad news" for the American infidels ? Do you have a link for these post-"pro-Iraqi" demonstrations ?

Living abroad, I've seen first hand a dramatic difference in the way news is covered and portrayed in the US. It's not lying, and it's not covering the truth, but it is different. The spin that is put on for American viewers on CNN, Fox News, etc. is no different than what Al-Jazeera spins for its audience. There is a huge amount of coverage on the rape and murder story, so much so that it dominates every facet of the Iraqi war.

TJones, it is not the same footage of the statue being toppled being replayed over and over again. But it is footage of groups of Iraqis that just don't like the American occupation. Do these foreign networks show the countless people who DO appreciate what America is trying to do? Sometimes, but mostly no.

[editor]

Living abroad, I've seen first hand a dramatic difference in the way news is covered and portrayed in the US. It's not lying, and it's not covering the truth, but it is different.

You are correct -- it can be very different. All day today the news in the United States was full of the story about the new "most wanted" list in Iraq. It was played here as if the American military came up with the list. The tonight I was listening to the news on a radio station out of Hong Kong. They carried a BBC radio report on it that said the list was created by the Iraqi government.

Also, while the reporting is different between the United States and other parts of the world, don't fall into the trap of blaming the differences on spin or point of view. A lot of times it's just a question of money and contacts.

For example, at the beginning of the war, everyone went to Iraq. Everyone from the big networks to the local stations from Miami. As time went on, this became expensive and the local stations dropped out. Then the small networks. Then even some of the major networks. These days there are only a few ways that television stations in the United States can reliably get video out of Iraq: Reuters, and APTN every day, and CBS/NBC/ABC occasionally. Even most of what you see on CNN is actually Reuters video. It's easier and cheaper for Reuters and APTN to operate in Iraq because their offices are in London. For the American networks, it's rediculously expensive to staff a reporter in Iraq, and most don't. They rely on free-lancers unless something huge happens, then they move someone in from the bureau in London.

So, what happens is every morning the free-lancers present the networks around the world with a list of all the video they have from Iraq that day. The TV networks have to decide if they should spend $5,000 on pictures of American soldiers building a school today, or save that money for the next catastrophy when they need pictures of an American helicopter going down. You don't have to watch many network newscasts to see that they're saving their money for a rainy day.

I can tell you that there really are a TON of good news stories happening in Iraq every day. But they don't make the television news because of the expense.

Of course, take everything above as a gross over-simplification of the situation. And remember that newspapers have their own problems that I can't begin to understand.

I guess the best advice is to use a variety of sources from the New York Times to individual soldier blogs from the men in the field.

[editor]

Yes, many things dont get reported. For example, on 9/11, as they showed the Palestinians dancing on the street, there was a massive candle light vigil in Tehran.

And now we plan to blow them up.

Geting any kind of video out of Iran is virtually impossible on a good day with lots of planning. Getting a vigil reacting to a developing story would be even more difficult. It's likely that by the time that video made it out of Iran the story had moved on. There were so many new developments in the days and weeks after 9/11 that it wouldn't have made sense to go backward and show people what happened weeks before.

Now, I don't want to make this strictly a Middle East thing, because it's not. There are HUGE sections of the United States where it can still take days to get video out to the networks. Believe it or not, a lot of the video you see on TV coming out of small markets got to the networks, at least part of the way, as a package on a Greyhound bus.

[MidtownCoog]

But really guys, they just suffered a holocaust, we should let them do anything they want to atone for our innately violent gentile behaviour. God help us overcome ourselves. Sarcasm if you didnt know.

You have cleary defined all the reasons you think Israel should show restraint.

What about restraint on the Palestenian side?

It's a two-way street.

[nmainguy]

30% of our yearly foreign aid budget goes to Israel-almost a third of all we give worldwide.

Do you think it's politics or a sincere effort to help out? It seems to be an extreme amount of money to be pouring into a country that offers very little back to the US.

See http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...to_Israel1.html

for the history of our foreign aid to Israel.

[TheNiche]

30% of our yearly foreign aid budget goes to Israel-almost a third of all we give worldwide.

Do you think it's politics or a sincere effort to help out? It seems to be an extreme amount of money to be pouring into a country that offers very little back to the US.

See http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...to_Israel1.html

for the history of our foreign aid to Israel.

Believe it or not, I actually agree with you on this one. As far as I'm concerned, we should drop Israel almost completely from our political conciousness. It'd go a lot further toward eliminating anti-Americanism from militant Islamists than waging any number of wars ever will.

They aren't even a particularly good ally...they've been known to attack our naval vessels in international waters for no reason at all. I used to know a Brit that was in the GIS business and was mapping the floor of the Red Sea using small explosive charges to generate shock waves, which he would record and analyze. Flying a U.K. flag on a fairly large vessel, he was warned by Israeli gunboats several times to get out of Israeli waters (he wasn't in Israeli waters) before getting lightly strafed with a .50 cal. deck gun. He took on just a little bit of water but learned his lesson.

Edited July 3, 2006 by TheNiche

[editor]

I just reread that and i cant believe the way you spun this thing. Are you trying to make a case for Israel based on the photo i provided. Those tanks you see arent in Israeli land. They are in set aside Palestinian land. Behind the wall.

You provided no geographic reference for the photos. There was no way to know whether they were in Israel or not. I merely stated what I saw -- someone provoking an Israeli tank.

Poor innocent Israelis, their nukes (which they do have-everyone in the international community knows this) and world class army are no match for those precision guided stones and home made rockets

I don't think anyone is trying to pretend that Israel doesn't have nukes. It's not a secret on any level. You might as well fabricate the same imagined conspiracy theory about Russia "(which they do have-everyone in the international community knows this)"

What do nukes have to do with the pictures you presented? There are no nuclear weapons shown. No one in the world thinks Israel would use nuclear weapons on the Palestinians because they'd nuke themselves in the process. It sounds like you're just throwing out a red herring to try to steer the topic in a new direction or putting up strawmen to make it seem like your argument holds water.

The photo showed people throwing rocks. I postulated that throwing rocks was meant as an attack, or to antagonize. You have yet to disprove either of those theories. Perhaps you can outline the steps through which throwing rocks at people leads to peace in the Middle East.

[TJones]

Yes, many things dont get reported. For example, on 9/11, as they showed the Palestinians dancing on the street, there was a massive candle light vigil in Tehran.

And now we plan to blow them up.

You forgot to add the part where the "candlelight vigil" was for the 25 terrorists hijackers who were on the planes that went down. Good reporting there Jimmy Olsen !

btw, No one is planning to blow anyone up. Unless you count Bin Laden. No plans to blow up Iran that I've seen, where did you come by your intel ?

Edited July 4, 2006 by TJones

[TJones]

1. Thanks bro, recieved that info from Fox.

2. Americas going to bomb Iran, trust me.

WHEN ! What Time, I want to make sure I am up to watch it on CNN.

Oh, you are speculating. Ok, sure, America is going to bomb Iran, we are going to bomb N.Korea, and bomb Iraq a little more, and if China gives us any grief about it, we are gonna go Nagasaki on their @$$e$ also.

[johncoby]

And then you ask me why they blow themselves up? They caught 8 Israeli soldiers. Boo Hoo! The arabs caught 8 of our men! And we killed about 50 of them.

We need diplomacy at it's finest!!!!!

Someone send in W!

[nmainguy]

We gave Israel $2,280,0000,000 in military grants in '06. Of course they'll continue their disproportionate attacks. What's stopping them as long as they know we'll foot much of the bill?

[Heights2Bastrop]

We gave Israel $2,280,0000,000 in military grants in '06. Of course they'll continue their disproportionate attacks. What's stopping them as long as they know we'll foot much of the bill?

And Muslims hate the US. Go figure!

I think maybe we should pull out of the Middle East. I think we need to leave, put up a rope all around the area, then let them fight it out, winner take all. Then the US can take on the winner!