urban909 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 The purple lines are the existing P & R commuter buses. The dash lines are commuter rail and the LRT (Yea!) Uptown line extension to the commuter rail.ohhh okay. thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 LOL. while in theory your idea is ideal, implementation would be impossible with METRO's proposed design. the last engineering drawings i saw for east side line had the tracks perpendicular to the downtown one.That's odd, until yesterday, there was no plan for any tracks to be laid where the east side line intersects with the Red Line. It was going to be BRT with no rails laid in the downtown portion, just running in diamond lanes by the curb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 That's odd, until yesterday, there was no plan for any tracks to be laid where the east side line intersects with the Red Line. It was going to be BRT with no rails laid in the downtown portion, just running in diamond lanes by the curb.They always stated.. the plan was always to put the infrastructure in place on every line - including the ones that were to start BRT..Does this not mean that every single line, even before yesterday's decision was going to have track down from day one ?This way when they did decide to switch over to LRT, you wouldnt have another 3 yr delay to put down the tracks.The BRT lines were to consist of rubber wheel vehicles traveling over the tracks.. what was to be missing was the actual rail cars plus the overhead power transmission lines to power them.Not that it matters anymore.. but am i the only one that interpreted BRT in this way ?... that they were going to have tracks down anyways from the get-go since they stated they were to have "infrastructure in place" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 It is very exciting. I was young, but can remember rail proposals shot down back in Kathy Whitmire's days. It is completely cool to look at the map on the front page of the Chron, and to live smack in the middle--walking distance at that-- of not one, but 3 rail lines. Woot!Yeah, I own a home in Eastwood and a commercial property just a bit off of Harrisburg. I'm not really a big fan of all the public waste, but at least I'm making money off it.Good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 That's odd, until yesterday, there was no plan for any tracks to be laid where the east side line intersects with the Red Line. It was going to be BRT with no rails laid in the downtown portion, just running in diamond lanes by the curb.But before the BRT garbage came up two years ago, the plan was to put light rail on the east line across downtown. Metro's just going back to the original plan.The more I look at the maps, the more excited I get. I'm still rather undecided as to whether I stay in Houston long-term or leave, but should I continue to make this my home into the next decade, you can bet I'll be buying a place within walking distance to one of those lines. I would absolutely love to be able to go to the theatres, shopping and restuarants downtown, the bars and restaurants in the Midtown, and shopping at the Galleria without driving. Sure I can do it now on Metro's bus system, but it's slow, the buses aren't as frequent, and it may require multiple transfers. This is going to be great for this city! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebird65 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Why do I get the feeling that quite a few of the posts written on this thead were written by Metro employees and/or their families? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 They always stated.. the plan was always to put the infrastructure in place on every line - including the ones that were to start BRT..Does this not mean that every single line, even before yesterday's decision was going to have track down from day one ?This way when they did decide to switch over to LRT, you wouldnt have another 3 yr delay to put down the tracks.The BRT lines were to consist of rubber wheel vehicles traveling over the tracks.. what was to be missing was the actual rail cars plus the overhead power transmission lines to power them.Not that it matters anymore.. but am i the only one that interpreted BRT in this way ?... that they were going to have tracks down anyways from the get-go since they stated they were to have "infrastructure in place"In a word, no. They were NOT planning to lay the rails in the downtown portion. The BRT vehicles were going to run in diamond lanes in the downtown portion. It's all laid out in detail in the EISs on Metro's website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Why do I get the feeling that quite a few of the posts written on this thead were written by Metro employees and/or their families?Perhaps because you are annoyed at so many Houstonians excited over a major upgrade in the city's rail transit system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 But before the BRT garbage came up two years ago, the plan was to put light rail on the east line across downtown. Metro's just going back to the original plan.Indeed they are. However, "before the BRT garbage came up two years ago" they had not even decided yet which streets the line would run on downtown, or even if it would be surface or subway, or for that matter, even if both the Harrisburg and Southeast lines would even enter downtown proper, or perhaps skirt the edge of downtown to go directly to the Intermodal Center. Quite unlikely that they had done detailed engineering drawings of any rail intersections at that point.All that being said, I would not expect them to offer single-car Southeast line-Red Line-University Line through service. Single car Red Line-University Line West-Uptown Line through service I think would be more likely. And they have already said they plan to offer U Line-Uptown Line single car through service.Clearly, the plans for the downtown portion will have to be totally re-worked with this new decision. I hope they do it in a way that will provide better connections between both the Southeast and Harrisburg lines and the Red Line. That would mean moving the lines off of their current planned placement on Rusk and Capital, is it? I would like to see them run the southeast line through the southern end of downtown, around Toyota Center area, connecting to the Bell Street station, perhaps, and run the Harrisburg line through the north end of downtown, near MMP, connecting to the Prairie station... It may be too late in the game for that scale of change... but it would provide better service throughout downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroMogul Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Why do I get the feeling that quite a few of the posts written on this thead were written by Metro employees and/or their families?I don't know what a "thead" is, but I doubt Metro relegates PR efforts to fantasy realms. As far as this thread goes; I think it just reflects a vocal majority for once instead of your usual bullheaded anti-government tinfoil contingent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Why do I get the feeling that quite a few of the posts written on this thead were written by Metro employees and/or their families?I'm neither a Metro employee nor do I have a family member who works for Metro, but I'm looking forward to this expansion as much as the other posters on here!I'm also sure that if I stay in Houston long term, I will buy a home within walking distance of one of these lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Not that it matters anymore.. but am i the only one that interpreted BRT in this way ?... that they were going to have tracks down anyways from the get-go since they stated they were to have "infrastructure in place"that was METRO's intention from what i understood as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 that was METRO's intention from what i understood as well.That was indeed their intention, in general, for the BRT lines. But that intention did not apply to the downtown area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 that was METRO's intention from what i understood as well.Yep, everything that was reported on the BRT plan said the rails would be laid in the streets during the construction phase, so that all that would have to be done to convert to LRT would be to put in the power supply and strip the layer of asphalt on top of the rails off.Anyway, it really doesn't matter now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Anyway, it really doesn't matter now.concur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I'm glad it won't be BTR, I'm glad they are getting rid of that ugly rail car design, hopefully add more cars to a train. But putting rail on streets is stupid to me, it won't go fast and they will have commercial train stop guards at intersections. Houston rail system just doesn't look right. I would much rather have heavy rail than light rial, but if you are going to have light rail, atleast model it after ones in Dallas and other cities. What Houston has is a basic STREET CAR that looks like a light rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I'm glad it won't be BTR, I'm glad they are getting rid of that ugly rail car design, hopefully add more cars to a train. But putting rail on streets is stupid to me, it won't go fast and they will have commercial train stop guards at intersections. Houston rail system just doesn't look right. I would much rather have heavy rail than light rial, but if you are going to have light rail, atleast model it after ones in Dallas and other cities. What Houston has is a basic STREET CAR that looks like a light rail.How could commercial train guards hurt the speed of the train? Wouldn't that stop traffic and allow the train to keep on moving through the intersection? Oh, and Houston's trains can link up more than one train now. And you said Houston's plan is basically a streetcar. Did you know that the entire southern portion of the Blue Line in Dallas and the Red/Blue Lines in Downtown Dallas act in the same way as Metro's system?Houston and Dallas are built differently. Houston is radial and Dallas is more east-west-north. Houston's layout makes light rail feasible in the inner city and not in the suburbs (where commuter rail would work). Houston's urban centers are mostly all in the loop. Dallas' are from Downtown on up to the suburban districts in Richardson, Plano, and North Dallas. DART bought old railroad beds so that is why the system is built like that. There aren't many abandoned railroad beds in inner city Houston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2H Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I'm glad it won't be BTR, I'm glad they are getting rid of that ugly rail car design, hopefully add more cars to a train. But putting rail on streets is stupid to me, it won't go fast and they will have commercial train stop guards at intersections. Houston rail system just doesn't look right. I would much rather have heavy rail than light rial, but if you are going to have light rail, atleast model it after ones in Dallas and other cities. What Houston has is a basic STREET CAR that looks like a light rail.Man you've just turned into quite the most complaining man alive. You can't tell me that Houstons current trains don't look better than Dallas's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 You cry alot.Go away.My opinion is my opinion. And Houston's rail line as it currently is sucks! Rail that runs on streets with cars is not worth having unless its just a street car. Street cars should be used in addition to rail with its own right of way. If the rail is like this I agree with all of the anti rail people. A bus does the same thing the current rail does. having a rail that moves people fast in its own right of way, will get people to where they need to go faster. I guess SPEED doesn't matter to Houstonians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) My opinion is my opinion. And Houston's rail line as it currently is sucks! Rail that runs on streets with cars is not worth having unless its just a street car. Street cars should be used in addition to rail with its own right of way. If the rail is like this I agree with all of the anti rail people. A bus does the same thing the current rail does. having a rail that moves people fast in its own right of way, will get people to where they need to go faster. I guess SPEED doesn't matter to Houstonians?What? You do realize that most LRT systems in the U.S. run on city streets (not saying that is all they do, but most run on city streets during their length). Only heavy rail is different as that has to be grade separated.What really is the big difference between having cars on the route for certain lengths than having no cars? The rail is still doing the same thing. My only gripe with Houston's rail is that it stops at red lights sometimes and there are not too many rail-crossing guards stopping cars as the train goes by. Edited October 19, 2007 by Trae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 What? You do realize that most LRT systems in the U.S. run on city streets (not saying that is all they do, but most run on city streets during their length). Only heavy rail is different as that has to be grade separated.What really is the big difference between having cars on the route for certain lengths than having no cars? The rail is still doing the same thing. My only gripe with Houston's rail is that it stops at red lights sometimes and there are not too many rail-crossing guards stopping cars as the train goes by.Its just not the same as other rail systems, look at the picture of the one you showed in LA. Why do other cities rail systems have more cars connected, and Houston's usually have just 1 or 2 connected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban909 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Its just not the same as other rail systems, look at the picture of the one you showed in LA. Why do other cities rail systems have more cars connected, and Houston's usually have just 1 or 2 connected?on the red line they can't link more than 2 (even though they could) do to the possibility of blocking intersections. now, i don't know/think/hope that will be the case with the new lines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) My opinion is my opinion. Blah blah blah...I don't object to your opinion.. but how you express it.You always compare everything to Atalanta this, Dallas that.... it gets old.You never have anything positive to say.I can understand being critical of Houston's rail... but when every critical statement of houston is accompanied by "why cant it be like this city or that city".... you come across as a whiny kid.Express your opinion all you want... but if you want people to take you seriously, learn to do so in a better manner. Edited October 20, 2007 by Highway6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 If you weren't so wrong all the time, we might listen to you. You apparently know so little about Dallas rail that you do not know that it is just as slow as Houston's. The average speed of a train is dictated by how much distance is between the stations. A route with many stations, such as METRO downtown, will have a lower average than a more suburban route. The Uptown line will average about 21 mph.The Red Line in Dallas only averages 21 mph, even though it runs into the northern suburbs. In town, it is even slower. The Blue Line in Dallas is even worse. It averages 19 mph. And these are supposedly "fast" trains, because they run in their own ROW. So, your "opinion that these trains are faster is a myth.You are also wrong on capacity. Houston's trains hold 25% more people than Dallas'. Why would we want to copy a system that has LESS capacity?Do your research citykid. You make yourself sound ignorant when you make up stuff that aint true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) ugly rail car designI actually think the Houston rail cars are cool looking. Very futuristic for a train! Edited October 20, 2007 by Jax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Haha, look at this comment from the Chron article (directed at me):Trae,If you understood that they withdrew the SE and Northside applications to the FTA these were the two closest lines. This process is a year to year and a half to give them Light Rail instead of Bus. The Deis has yet to be completed on University line and must go through lengthy federal review if lawsuit doesn't force line back onto to Westpark. Meanwhile back at Metro the Federal New Starts programs has many other more viable projects than Metros they must compete with to get any funding. There is absolutely no guarantee Metro would ever get any funding for any rail project which is why Main street line was built with local funds because everyone knew it would never qualify for federal funds. Meanwhile back at Metro headquarters a new legislative session could wipe out any and all plans and a new Mayor can appoint a whole new board. Rail is toast and Metro knows it.This guy (among with many others) are full of it. A lot on their say rail and bus are for scum people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I don't object to your opinion.. but how you express it.You always compare everything to Atlanta this, Dallas that.... it gets old.You never have anything positive to say.I can understand being critical of Houston's rail... but when every critical statement of Houston is accompanied by "why cant it be like this city or that city".... you come across as a whiny kid.Express your opinion all you want... but if you want people to take you seriously, learn to do so in a better manner.I have nothing but good stuff to say about Houston. As you all may have noticed I haven't been on here much lately, thats because I have been temporarily staying in the Houston area and I don't have internet access where I am staying. Houston has grown so much lately, I see a lot of stuff going up that is never mentioned on here. Houston is my favorite city and will always be. I just want the best. I rode through the Galleria area the other day on the way to the southwestern suburbs, and that is a very nice view coming of of 290 on to 610. The traffic was VERY VERY VERY bad, but I liked the whole experience, it gave me time to sit back and enjoy the view. To me seeing all the traffic in the area shows that its a happening place! So I unlike other people look at traffic as somewhat of a good thing. You can see that new high rise where James Conney Island once was (forgot the name) It looks tall from the freeway. Also Westchase District seems to be growing, I saw some new high rises, and some new ones going up. Town & Country Mall development is further along then I thought. Sugar Land across the freeway from the town center I saw a really nice development with a Whole Foods going in and some nice town homes. There is so much development going on all over Houston. I will admit, that talking about Houston from a distance is much different then being there. Every time I'm there, I am amazed more and more! There is always something new to look at in Houston! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirTonk Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 As long as Sound Exchange doesn't shut down, I'm excited about the Richmond line. It's going to be a mess during construction though. I really hope that all the local businesses don't shut down and get replaced by a bunch of chain-stores. We're already losing the Proletariat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of University Oaks Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 And Chapultepec. I'd like to think that METRO can assist these two businesses in their relocation process. But METRO has never failed to disappoint me. I *hate* saying that. I know a lot of folks at METRO. But it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 We're losing Chapultepec? That building was falling apart anyways, but I hope they move somwhere new because they made great quesadillas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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