UNLV Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 There is no way Houston can run Heavy-rail passenger trains with the current rail congestion. A few years ago there was a plan to build a double line from Stafford to the ship channel, tunnel under the ship channel, then follow the 146 corridor to Dayton then east to Beaumont. This plan was suppose to divert 97% of Houston traffic quickly pass Houston. Is this still the plan? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 There is no way Houston can run Heavy-rail passenger trains with the current rail congestion. A few years ago there was a plan to build a double line from Stafford to the ship channel, tunnel under the ship channel, then follow the 146 corridor to Dayton then east to Beaumont. This plan was suppose to divert 97% of Houston traffic quickly pass Houston. Is this still the plan?No. In Fall of last year, the County was looking into ways to divert rail traffic to particular corridors. The really big routes in and out of the city would be through Stafford covering most of the outbound traffic headed west, southwest, and south (vice versa for inbound traffic). Some of the west and most of the northerly outbound traffic would be routed through Conroe, with a reliever route through Spring. The major lines would converge in a few key places, including Harrisburg, Channelview/Baytown, and Conroe.I haven't heard anything since then to the effect that headway was being made, but have been hearing from the North Houston Association that meetings are being held to discuss the regional freight rail use patterns. I think that TXDoT was either sponsoring them or in some way involved in these meetings.I've got a map of last year's proposals at work. I'll post it at some point later this week if I have the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Commuter Rail is greatly needed. The West, Southwest, and Northwest lines especially need one. Once the Hardy Rail Yards is up, we need one down to Galveston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLV Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 I would love to see that map. Take a look at these numbers.Long Distance Travel Between Major Metropolitan Areas Metro Pairs Generating300,000 or More Person Round-trips Per YearCMSA/MSA #1 CMSA/MSA #2 Projected Volume Los Angeles San Diego 10,466,883 Las Vegas Los Angeles 9,120,296 New York Phil. 8,476,339 New York Wash. 7,773,377 Los Angeles San Fran. 7,049,954 Sacramento San Fran. 5,337,613 Phil. Wash. 4,678,680 Dallas Houston 3,097,228 Portland Seattle 2,605,223 Norfolk Wash. 2,590,212 Los Angeles Phoenix 2,472,665 San Diego San Fran. 2,415,188 Dallas San Antonio 2,286,587 Las Vegas San Diego 2,213,871 Boston New York 2,121,134 Albany NY New York 2,073,199 Harrisburg Phil. 2,060,693 Los Angeles Santa Barbara 2,036,605 Austin Houston 2,032,380 Lakeland Sarasota 1,940,741 Atlanta Nashville 1,893,454 Phoenix Tucson 1,811,036 Austin Dallas 1,805,389 Cleveland Columbus 1,800,126 Houston San Antonio 1,744,368 Miami New York 1,712,677 Reno San Fran. 1,704,123 Eugene Portland 1,666,301 Los Angeles Sacramento 1,631,660 Chicago Detroit 1,614,286 Beaumont Houston 1,450,625 <--------------------------------Detroit Grand Rapids 1,411,112 Corpus Christi San Antonio 1,392,317 Okla. City Tulsa 1,344,266 Richmond Wash. 1,327,046 Cincinnati Columbus 1,310,511 -42-CMSA/MSA #1 CMSA/MSA #2 Projected Volume Hartford New York 1,285,033 Los Angeles New York 1,257,041 Atlanta Birmingham 1,219,047 Pittsburgh Wash. 1,196,211 Chicago Indianapolis 1,176,242 Lowell New York 1,167,354 Bakersfield Los Angeles 1,135,519 Phil. Scranton 1,123,862 Chicago Milwaukee 1,115,713 Chicago St. Louis 1,095,190 Fresno Los Angeles 1,070,261 Miami Orlando 1,035,869 Cincinnati Indianapolis 1,029,824 New York Scranton 1,007,871 Cleveland Detroit 987,179 Chicago New York 969,846 New York Orlando 952,078 Phoenix San Fran. 948,829 Los Angeles Seattle 945,033 New London New York 939,648 Kansas City St. Louis 920,066 Chicago Minneapolis 892,108 Orlando Tampa 877,514 Phil. Pittsburgh 877,108 This would be a succesful commuter route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Thing is, I understand that commuter trains can travel quite a few distances with only a few stops.Question is: At what point would it be feasible for heavy rail to be utilized? Katy, Sugarland, woodlands, Kingwood, Pearland, Clearlake are all relatively close to Downtown. time for acceleration/deceleration needs to be taken into account on these matters, I would imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I personally think commuter rail should be placed on the far back burner to that of rail in the city limits. If people in the burbs want to have rail so badly, especially above the people in the city of Houston, move into the city limits! Get the rail up and running in the city limits before focussing on the burbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Totally agree, I'm just asking out of sheer curiousity. I'm sure we could have our rail system set up in 3/4 of the time if we had a congressman BACKING it. [sarcasm]Then again, traffic would truly be a nightmare with all the construction happening all over the place. Heaven forbid Houston would have a bunch of construction projects going on at the same time![/sarcasm] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CE_ugh Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I think that the only cooridor needing commuter rail would be the Northwest cooridor. Thats only because it seems that it would be the most likely track for a future passenger line to Dallas and possibly San Antonio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) I would love to see that map. Take a look at these numbers.Long Distance Travel Between Major Metropolitan Areas Metro Pairs Generating300,000 or More Person Round-trips Per YearCMSA/MSA #1 CMSA/MSA #2 Projected Volume Dallas Houston 3,097,228Dallas San Antonio 2,286,587Austin Houston 2,032,380Austin Dallas 1,805,389Houston San Antonio 1,744,368Beaumont Houston 1,450,625Corpus Christi San Antonio 1,392,317THANK YOU! Going through your stats just inspired a spark in my brain. Abandon Perry's TTC proposal; I have a much better idea! One that deserved its own thread.Very interesting, by the way, that of all of those high-travel pairs, not a single Texas city is a pair with a city outside of Texas. We're our own little region unto itself, it seems. Edited August 24, 2006 by TheNiche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfootball Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) Why is Metro ____ing around with the University Line and other less important routes through city streets and not concentrating on what people really want, which is Commuter rail that runs down major corridors like: I-45, 290, I-10, 59, and 610? WTF is their problem? Have they got no common sense? Hey Metro...go where you're wanted. Stop trying to create demand and go where the ____ing demand is. I swear they've got chimps running that operation. Edited August 24, 2006 by mrfootball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) I personally think commuter rail should be placed on the far back burner to that of rail in the city limits. If people in the burbs want to have rail so badly, especially above the people in the city of Houston, move into the city limits! Get the rail up and running in the city limits before focussing on the burbs.The burbs are donating money to METROs funding and shouldn't be limited because YOU want a rail where you live. Very selfcentered.A commuter rail network would be easier to implement because the tracks are already there! BTW Harris County has taken the lead on commuter rail because they are the ones who appear to be gathering rights for use of the existing tracks. Edited August 24, 2006 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 The burbs are donating money to METROs funding and shouldn't be limited because YOU want a rail where you live. Very selfcentered.A commuter rail network would be easier to implement because the tracks are already there! BTW Harris County has taken the lead on commuter rail because they are the ones who appear to be gathering rights for use of the existing tracks.Where do i live genius? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 commuter rail is worthless if you cannot easily connect to the major centers of activity once the commuter gets inside the loop. hence, LRT. commuter rail straight into downtown or connecting with existing LRT is the only possible way commuter rail will succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 The burbs are donating money to METROs funding and shouldn't be limited because YOU want a rail where you live. Very selfcentered.A commuter rail network would be easier to implement because the tracks are already there! BTW Harris County has taken the lead on commuter rail because they are the ones who appear to be gathering rights for use of the existing tracks.A few weeks ago, you were arguing that more people rode the Park & Rides than the LRT. Now, you are acting as if the suburbs get no service. Which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) Where do i live genius?I have no idea where you live but I think we differ on where the burbs are............i I believe there are burbs in the City of Houston. Edited August 24, 2006 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) A few weeks ago, you were arguing that more people rode the Park & Rides than the LRT. Now, you are acting as if the suburbs get no service. Which is it?I wasn't arguing that more people rode the park and ride, i was stating that more people rode the park and rides because the numbers to support the statement are clear. I didn't say the suburbs get no service. The inner loop gets the most service from METRO due to the fact that their bus system is geared to towards those riders and this is where METRO spends the most money yearly. METRO is more than LRT vs. park & ride Edited August 24, 2006 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I have no idea where you live but I think we differ on where the burbs are............i I believe there are burbs in the City of Houston.Nonsense. Commuter rail should not be a high priority. Rail inside the city should, especially inside the loop where people are more transit dependant. People that would make use of commuter rail are not transit dependant. Take care of the ones that would make use of rail on a daily basis before constructing commuter rail to please people that think they are too good to live in the city limits but dont mind enjoying city services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) Nonsense. Commuter rail should not be a high priority. Rail inside the city should, especially inside the loop where people are more transit dependant. People that would make use of commuter rail are not transit dependant. Take care of the ones that would make use of rail on a daily basis before constructing commuter rail to please people that think they are too good to live in the city limits but dont mind enjoying city services.Ah we do see the suburbs differently. Kingwood and Clear Lake are both suburbs but IN the City of Houston. This has been a big thorn in the City Council's side for decades. The City annexed both and the courts said they MUST provide city services or then they couldn't annex them.I"m for gaining new riders. Those that NEED to ride the bus will ride whatever means of transportation is offered to them whether that would be bus or LRT. If buses are already available that provide an effective means of transportation, is building MORE LRT which eliminates bus routes providing more service or less? that is the question. So where do you live? Edited August 24, 2006 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I've got a map of last year's proposals at work. I'll post it at some point later this week if I have the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Ah we do see the suburbs differently. Kingwood and Clear Lake are both suburbs but IN the City of Houston. This has been a big thorn in the City Council's side for decades. The City annexed both and the courts said they MUST provide city services or then they couldn't annex them.Suburb= residential area located outside of city limits. You are one of the very few here that dont know where i live. It has been posted many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Suburb= residential area located outside of city limits. You are one of the very few here that dont know where i live. It has been posted many times.I understand your definition i consider outlying communities suburban whether they are part of the city or not. No i don't know where you live. You were the one that posed the question first if i recall. Something like...Where do i live genius? To say very few people here don't know where you live is incorrect. If there was a poll, i'll bet more than half of the members here don't know where you live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) If there was a poll, i'll bet more than half of the members here don't know where you live.I don't know where any of you people live. Edited August 24, 2006 by Highway6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I don't know where any of you people live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Why is Metro ____ing around with the University Line and other less important routes through city streets and not concentrating on what people really want, which is Commuter rail that runs down major corridors like: I-45, 290, I-10, 59, and 610? WTF is their problem? Have they got no common sense?Hey Metro...go where you're wanted. Stop trying to create demand and go where the ____ing demand is.I swear they've got chimps running that operation.Houston should have both. A effective suburban rail network would feed into good transit lines in the inner city. This could be LRT or BRT or whatever as long its faster and more efficient then regular buses. IMO if they could magically plop down stations and started operating trains along 290 to the NW transit center i bet the number new choice riders(not normal users or ones who have no other options) using it would be mediocre at best. But once the U line and Uptown BRT are in operation lots more people would use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I understand your definition i consider outlying communities suburban whether they are part of the city or not.And hogs are kosher too, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CE_ugh Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Houston should have both. A effective suburban rail network would feed into good transit lines in the inner city. This could be LRT or BRT or whatever as long its faster and more efficient then regular buses. IMO if they could magically plop down stations and started operating trains along 290 to the NW transit center i bet the number new choice riders(not normal users or ones who have no other options) using it would be mediocre at best. But once the U line and Uptown BRT are in operation lots more people would use it.An Uptown transit cooridor is absolutely essential to the success of a Northwest Rail Line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 No less than this...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxDave Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Houston should have both. A effective suburban rail network would feed into good transit lines in the inner city. This could be LRT or BRT or whatever as long its faster and more efficient then regular buses.I agree. Commuter vs. Urban rail should not be an either/or decision. The combination will help create a more vibrant "inner core" for all of Houston.The light rail lines will allow people to easily move around inner city neighborhoods, and will create even more urban development in their path. Meanwhile, the commuter lines will allow suburban residents (they are not going away!) consistent, easy access to the urban core. Once there they will also be able to use the light rail system to take advantage of the city's offerings.Actually the commuter lines could provide two benefits: 1) they provide more users/customers for the light rail lines; and 2) if it is ultimately easier to get downtown by rail than driving among the suburbs, the downtown job centers will grow considerably, creating even more demand for local light rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Nonsense. Commuter rail should not be a high priority. Rail inside the city should, especially inside the loop where people are more transit dependant. People that would make use of commuter rail are not transit dependant. Take care of the ones that would make use of rail on a daily basis before constructing commuter rail to please people that think they are too good to live in the city limits but dont mind enjoying city services. yes, after growing up in the suburbs, all "right" thinking people should move into the city's core. by staying in the suburbs we are proving ourselves arrogant and self-centered. it doesn't seem to matter that we pay tolls, gas taxes, rental car fees and sales tax while we are going to and from around the greater houston area. we pay for city services that we do not use on a regular basis. i would wager that some suburbanites pay more in tolls, taxes and fees that benefit the city of houston and its residents than some city residents pay into the city coffers. it's a communal effort. it's not an us or them scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 it's a communal effort. it's not an us or them scenario.bachanon you have to remember who you're talking about....There are tons of people that will not ride a bus but will ride a train, i am one of them.He wants LRT built because he won't ride a bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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